New ECU worth it?

[jackso11]

I know it is expensive, and that BPU is much cheaper and gives good gains...but I was talking to a mate of mine who runs a performance car garage and he was saying a new ECU is the best way to go because going BPU involves fooling the standard ECU rather than having it run how it should. He also pointed out that the stock ECU software was written almost 20 years ago and things have come on so much since then that even buying a 'plug and play' ECU and sticking it straight in will be so much better than the stock ECU before remapping it.

His example was a 10 year old Golf can be re-mapped and straight away be more fuel efficient and gain over 80hp.

 

I know we can gain good hp from BPU, but if you spend the extra cash and get a new ECU will the extra benifits be worth it?

With a new ECU I wouldn't need a restrictor ring or an FCD, just a boost controller, and will get more fuel efficiency I guess.

 

How many of us have actually gone the new ECU route?

[Jamesy]

Better to go bpu AND get an ecu if poss i'd say

[Nic]

Your mate obviously doesn't know much about Supras

 

For the money going BPU is by far the best/cheapest way to get extra performance from the stock TT Supra. Just fitting an ECU would be more expensive and would not give the same performance gains on it's own.

 

Fitting a mappable ECU as well as the BPU mods would certainly help get the best out of the setup. I use to run an emanage, cams and fueling mods when I was on the stock turbos.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Nic (see edit history)

[Scott]

I know it is expensive, and that BPU is much cheaper and gives good gains...but I was talking to a mate of mine who runs a performance car garage and he was saying a new ECU is the best way to go because going BPU involves fooling the standard ECU rather than having it run how it should. He also pointed out that the stock ECU software was written almost 20 years ago and things have come on so much since then that even buying a 'plug and play' ECU and sticking it straight in will be so much better than the stock ECU before remapping it.

His example was a 10 year old Golf can be re-mapped and straight away be more fuel efficient and gain over 80hp.

 

I know we can gain good hp from BPU, but if you spend the extra cash and get a new ECU will the extra benifits be worth it?

With a new ECU I wouldn't need a restrictor ring or an FCD, just a boost controller, and will get more fuel efficiency I guess.

 

How many of us have actually gone the new ECU route?

 

 

Where to begin with this one. Firstly your mate is talking rubbish. The reason you can get 80 horsepower out of a Golf is because it is turbo-charged. The Ecu's in more modern cars control the boost pressure of the turbo, simply re-mapping the ECU to up the boost pressure and adjusting the map to suit it is what gives the gains. It could be done the day after the car being released, its nothing to do with technology advances.

 

Manufacturers maps are always much safer than tuning maps. They run rich deliberately. The reason a re-mapped car gets more MPG is because the MAP is a bit more aggressive. It all has to be done right though, via a rolling road, as all cars are different. Plug and play chips are just a fudge, they will lean out the mix but what if they go too far?

 

Now then, BPU. You will still need a restrictor ring on the car if you plan to de-cat it. It has nothing to do with the ECU. On the J-Spec cars the wastegate is small and when the exhaust pressure has been free'd up by getting rid of the CAT's it just can't cope. The restrictor ring puts some of the pressure back into the system allowing the turbo's to remain a little restricted in order to let the wastegate do its job properly.

 

An ECU is a great upgrade IMO. As long as it is properly and safely mapped by someone who knows what they are doing, as well as what your car is doing. The fact that your "mate" said all this to you makes me think he wants a sale rather than to see you get the best potential out of your car.

 

ECU Advantages on BPU are minimal but i think they are a good option. The lean spot as the 2nd tubby comes online in BPU is a bit of a worry for some. This can be mapped out as well as the map being as efficient as possible right through the rev range. This could give you a little more mid range Oomph with a little bit of top end grunt. You won't gain a lot of HP but you can be sure that you will be getting the best you can from your setup.

 

HTH

[jackso11]

Where to begin with this one. Firstly your mate is talking rubbish. The reason you can get 80 horsepower out of a Golf is because it is turbo-charged. The Ecu's in more modern cars control the boost pressure of the turbo, simply re-mapping the ECU to up the boost pressure and adjusting the map to suit it is what gives the gains. It could be done the day after the car being released, its nothing to do with technology advances.

 

Manufacturers maps are always much safer than tuning maps. They run rich deliberately. The reason a re-mapped car gets more MPG is because the MAP is a bit more aggressive. It all has to be done right though, via a rolling road, as all cars are different. Plug and play chips are just a fudge, they will lean out the mix but what if they go too far?

 

Now then, BPU. You will still need a restrictor ring on the car if you plan to de-cat it. It has nothing to do with the ECU. On the J-Spec cars the wastegate is small and when the exhaust pressure has been free'd up by getting rid of the CAT's it just can't cope. The restrictor ring puts some of the pressure back into the system allowing the turbo's to remain a little restricted in order to let the wastegate do its job properly.

 

An ECU is a great upgrade IMO. As long as it is properly and safely mapped by someone who knows what they are doing, as well as what your car is doing. The fact that your "mate" said all this to you makes me think he wants a sale rather than to see you get the best potential out of your car.

 

ECU Advantages on BPU are minimal but i think they are a good option. The lean spot as the 2nd tubby comes online in BPU is a bit of a worry for some. This can be mapped out as well as the map being as efficient as possible right through the rev range. This could give you a little more mid range Oomph with a little bit of top end grunt. You won't gain a lot of HP but you can be sure that you will be getting the best you can from your setup.

 

HTH

 

All good advice Good to hear it from someone who knows supras. My mate wasn't after a sale, I would think that except as you pointed out he is not a supra specialist, he told me to talk to someone who knows supras and if I decide to get a new ECU find someone who specialises in them as he doesn't.

 

Will I still need a restrictor ring if I have a boost controller? I have read various posts (including the BPU thread) on this and am still unsure as to weather I need both or just one of them.

 

My car at the moment has a nice exhaust and thats about it for mods. My list is...

 

1) Restrictor ring or Boost controller,

2) De-cats (both, although some posts seem to suggest BPU can be achieved with just the 1st removed)

3) FCD

4) Fuel pump

5) Iridium plugs

 

So for now this lot will do, and ECU can be added at a later date, to be mapped by a supra specialist. When the ECU is fitted the only thing that can be disguarded from the list is the FCD.

 

Think thats all right isn't it?

[Nic]

Yes on a j-spec TT you will need a restrictor ring even with a boost controller fitted, a boost controller can only raise boost, it cannot lower boost levels.

[johnny g]

My car at the moment has a nice exhaust and thats about it for mods. My list is...

 

1) Restrictor ring or Boost controller,

2) De-cats (both, although some posts seem to suggest BPU can be achieved with just the 1st removed)

3) FCD

4) Fuel pump

5) Iridium plugs

 

6) Boost gauge

[Nic]

1) Restrictor ring or Boost controller,

2) De-cats (both, although some posts seem to suggest BPU can be achieved with just the 1st removed)

3) FCD

4) Fuel pump

5) Iridium plugs

 

You'll definitely need the restrictor ring, boost controller is optional

 

You'll also need a boost gauge.

 

You can run with the 2nd cat still fitted, removing both cats will give the best results though.

 

You don't necessarily need Iridium plugs, just a cooler grade of plug to prevent misfire at the higher boost levels.

[Frank Bullitt]

My car at the moment has a nice exhaust and thats about it for mods. My list is...

 

1) Restrictor ring & Boost controller

2) 1st & 2nd Decats

4) Fuel pump

5) Iridium plugs

 

6) Boost gauge

 

7) AFR Gauge

8) Replacement intercooler if the old one is shot

 

Edited October 13, 2009 by Frank Bullitt
Spelling (see edit history)

[johnny g]

6) Boost gauge

 

7) AFR Gauge

8) Replacement intercooler if the old one is shot

 

 

9) RLTC for the icy roads (or ECU with T/C).

[johnny g]

Also, have a read on Alex's thread in the FAQ section, on what spark plugs to run

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=41927

[jackso11]

7) AFR Gauge

8) Replacement intercooler if the old one is shot

 

 

How do I know if the old intercooler is shot? what is a good way to test it?

I will be going down the FMIC route when I have more cash but for now hopefully the existing one is fine.

[jackso11]

guages.....good point

 

is there a problem with getting a £30-£40 guage instead of shelling out on a greddy £130 guage? readings shouldn't be that far a drift should they?

[Frank Bullitt]

How do I know if the old intercooler is shot? what is a good way to test it?

I will be going down the FMIC route when I have more cash but for now hopefully the existing one is fine.

 

Remove it from the car and look for corroded fins. If it is shot and you are on a budget just replace it with stock one in good condition.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[johnny g]

You do get what you pay for in terms of gauges, to a certain extent. Sometimes are you are paying for a name - so long as it's consistent, though, that's the main thing.

 

Gauges are all about confidence though. They can't do anything to stop a problem but they do bring it to your attention quickly, to enable you to do something about it.

[Terminator]

No need to remove it. Gently poke your finger in the front of your SMIC, if the fins crumble it is shot. If the fins offer solid resistance to your finger then they have not corroded so can conduct heat. Most MKIV's used on roads with winter salt for a number of years will have some corrosion. When I took mine out the fins just fell away when touched.

[MarkR]

There are a few things I've learnt along the way that may be helpful.

 

1) Decat both with a 1.2bar Restrictor Ring. No need for a boost controller as you can hit 1.2 bar without it. BC's only raise the boost, not lower it. You may be able to get a slightly more aggressive gain on the boost with a BC, but when I was BPU, running with BC on and off was barely noticeable, so save your cash for other mods.

 

2) FCD - Once you start raising the boost, your standard ECU will try prevent over boosting, so get one of these. The moment I decatted I hit boost cut, and it's fairly scary when you're not expecting it. (I'll have one for sale pretty soon)

 

3) AFR, EGT & Boost gauge to keep an eye on fuel, boost and temperatures. These are optional but advised.

 

4) Cat-back exhaust.

 

5) Replace your SMIC with a new or aftermarket SMIC. You don't need an FMIC with BPU, and all it did for me was add a little lag and costs a bomb.

 

Notes: Don't bother with a fuel pump unless you're planning future mods, as the standard one is up to the job up to about 1.2 bar. Don't exceed 1.2 bar as the injectors, turbos and fuel pump are all pretty much maxed out at that stage. Don't replace the FPR as the std one is fine. Don't waste money on "branded" spark plugs etc. Get a decent set of copper plugs. There is a thread in the technical section on these.

[johnny g]

Also, if you are going BPU and want ECU - you don't need an FCD

[jackso11]

Fitting the guages, can this be done by yourself or do they need professionally fitting? I am guessing they just need to be spliced into a hose or a sensor fitted, depending on what you are reading.

[johnny g]

Depends on your skill level and gauge type, really. If you're ok with a spanner and a screwdriver/soldering iron then go for it.

 

If you are in doubt, let a pro do it.

[jackso11]

I do pretty much all DIY, electronics, car work myself and unless there is a need for an expensive tool I would want to try it myself so I can learn

 

.....this is why I have a whole load of specialist tools that have been bought for 1 job and will never be needed again. haha.

[Scott]

Fitting gauges is easy enough. If you buy a cheap one then compare it to a known good one then you should be fine. The cheap gauge may over or under read but it should be consistent so if a known gauge reads 1.2 and then you swap yours over and it reads 1.1 just get it in your head that 1.1 = 1.2 bar in the real world.

 

Of course this is more risky but its better than nothing at all.

 

I will have a black face HKS gauge with modded blue LED backlight up for sale soon if you are interested. Just waiting to get my new gauges fitted.

[jackso11]

keep me posted on that guage, I will be interested

[nigelboyne]

of all the upgrades i did the ecu hks f-con gave the least amount of performance. however it did smooth out cold starts and power delivery is much crisper and smoother along with a little more power as the rev limiter raised slightly. the best thing is it can be mapped to your personall driving style.mine had to be remapped as it was mapped for the mapper styles driving which was far to aggressive.