Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yes, that's why I assume that supra engine is more powerful than BMW's. What point did you not get? The N/A is more powerfull, by a fair margin, but the CR is comparable I think. The drop in CR for the TT would probably mean the figures would be comparable with the BMW. I'm almost positive I read that a TT without tubbys would make around 180hp with the fuelling setup correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 GTE = 8.5:1 GE = 10:1 Not sure what difference that would make to the power but we all know that the TT would make less as an N/A than the GE. 180 is probably a fair estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Okay lets see... Barometric Air pressure is aprox 1bar What effect Air density 1 temprarure 2 pressure 20 degrees Air at watersea lvl Will have a certain amount of density if you could get 1 bar of pressurised Air to the exact same temprarure it would contain dubble the oxygen. So aslong as the intake temprarure of the n/a and the turbo engine is the the exact same you would be stuffing the engine with dubble the Air and so get 100% more power. You say that is not true. How can your turbo produce more density at the same pressure to get more then 100%? Here you might say Well iam cooling the Air... Fair enough But if you would feed the n/a with the same temprarure you would also increase the n/a density. So feel free to tell me how you get the Air lets say 30%more dense at the same preussure and temp. Heck you are going to be rich Writing from My iphone so bare with me --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.705390,11.881201 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Asumptions imo the tt engine would get cooler air as the intake dont go over the head. Iam not saying it will produce xxx iam just saying its asumptions. My mate got like 300 n/a hp from his s50b30 stock is 286 and thats with 8.0 compression instead of 11.x --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.705320,11.881324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisLupus Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 God why don't you understand? A 1500HP Supra engine without Stroker kit running 3 bar of Boost would have to make 500NA HP with a rev limit of lets say 9000. There's absolutely NO chance something like this is realistic or happening in any dimension... Just for a side note have a read on efficiency relating to combustion engines and the impact that charged air has on it... In short More efficient = more power and charged engines are more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The TT intake temperature will most likely be higher than an N/A as the turbo will be heating the air. Granted the intercooler will drop this temperature but I don't know how much by. This is the reason the stock TTs aren't very efficient at higher boost levels, they heat the air way too much. Anyway, as I said... I can't explain to you how it works. I can only present you with the facts. 1. Do you agree a 2JZ-GTE running 1.0bar with the stock turbos will hit around 380hp when everything is healthy? 2. Do you agree that fitting a larger and more efficient single turbo would see more than 380hp at 1.0bar with no other intake changes? 3. Do you realise that the air/fuel mix is completely different between an N/A and a forced induction setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 God why don't you understand? A 1500HP Supra engine without Stroker kit running 3 bar of Boost would have to make 500NA HP with a rev limit of lets say 9000. There's absolutely NO chance something like this is realistic or happening in any dimension... Just for a side note have a read on efficiency relating to combustion engines and the impact that charged air has on it... In short More efficient = more power and charged engines are more efficient. You take the price ive Said it can be up to 100% more effective..... Yeah or you could read up some yourself --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.735692,11.940517 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 You take the price ive Said it can be up to 100% more effective..... Yeah or you could read up some yourself --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.735692,11.940517 You aren't listening to sense though bud. Lets say that a GTE makes 200hp as an N/A (It's a nice round figure and it won't be THAT far off the truth). Going by your theory in order to make 600hp the turbo will need to produce 3 times the amount of atomospheric pressure. If we take the going rate as around 1.0bar that would mean that 2.0bar of positive pressure would be required. This would then mean that any Supra running 600+ horsepower is running 2.0bar + pressure. In order to hit 1000hp you would need 5 times the atomospheric pressure, therefor JP and everyone in the US must be running 4bar+. There are some nice fast Supras in Sweden, what is the most powerful one you know of still running as a 3.0L, how much power is it making and at what boost level is it making it at? I honestly can't put it any plainer than that, it's staring you straight in the face bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 God why don't you understand? A 1500HP Supra engine without Stroker kit running 3 bar of Boost would have to make 500NA HP with a rev limit of lets say 9000. There's absolutely NO chance something like this is realistic or happening in any dimension... Just for a side note have a read on efficiency relating to combustion engines and the impact that charged air has on it... In short More efficient = more power and charged engines are more efficient. Nice calculation yeah it would be 2000 if it had 3 bar Boost and made 500 na 375 na hp to reach 1500bhp @ 3 bar --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.721123,12.011427 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Scott yeah that would be with just upgradeing the turbo nothing else. Not intercooler or anything that would affect na power --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.721022,12.011358 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Now you know how we all feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Scott yeah that would be with just upgradeing the turbo nothing else. Not intercooler or anything that would affect na power --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.721022,12.011358 So you're saying there are no 600hp supras running less than 2.0 bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So you're saying there are no 600hp supras running less than 2.0 bar? U kidding me right... Yeah no 600bhp tjat use stock exhaust stock intercooler pipeing stock Intercooler and everything else stock but the turbo --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.790386,12.096858 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 blimey are you 2 still going? http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/1/12/128762786170235365.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dive_popo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Scott yeah that would be with just upgradeing the turbo nothing else. Not intercooler or anything that would affect na power --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.721022,12.011358 exhaust+injectors+fuel pump+spark plugs+intercooler wont really affect a lot the na power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 You dont need to add alot n/a power either @ 2 bar 200bhp na will be 600. --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.778996,12.129205 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Getting 230 na Will be 690 at 2 bar an get 600 bhp @ 1.6 bar --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.776648,12.144161 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dive_popo Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Getting 230 na Will be 690 at 2 bar an get 600 bhp @ 1.6 bar --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.776648,12.144161 http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?581579-why-does-a-big-turbo-make-more-power-at-same-boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 U kidding me right... Yeah no 600bhp tjat use stock exhaust stock intercooler pipeing stock Intercooler and everything else stock but the turbo --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.790386,12.096858 no I'm not kidding. adding an intercooler to an na would give less power, throwing on an exhaust does very little. Adding a large intercooler only aids a turbo car by allowing the VE to remain as high as possible, it cannot increase it. You are killing your own argument here as you don't seem to understand what you are talking about. fitting a huge 1000hp exhaust, inlet manifold and intercooler would not have any major effect on an N/A. The only reason for doing so when upgrading the turbo is so that the flow can be free allowing the increase. According to your theory you can't increase more the 100% of the stock power per 1.0 bar. in reality, according to your theory, it would actually be less as the car would be slightly more restrictive and free flowing. not taking these restrictions into account allows for the best possible scenario...again this is according to your theory. Therefor the absolute best you could manage with the head not being ported or modified is 600hp at 2.0bar. It would actually brought less in reality due to said restraints. How are you not seeing how ridiculous that is? There are 600hp cars running 1.3 bar on 67mm turbos fgs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Your are mixing about yeah sure 600 bhp @ 1.3 is no problem it would make 260 as A na --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.717927,12.018672 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Your are mixing about yeah sure 600 bhp @ 1.3 is no problem it would make 260 as A na --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.717927,12.018672 How is it doing this though? The head hasn't been touched, the intake is stock. How is it going from 180hp to 280hp? Are you telling me that adding an intercooler and an exhaust would give an N/A an 80hp increase? Let the boys know, they'll snap your hand off mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 pmsl . all im saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It hurts me. It physically hurts me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The figure 180 is somthing that is asumed, you saying people get 600 hp at 1.3 bar with bigger exhaust only? Well ill just rest my case --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.721118,12.011299 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Some club members have had a whip round and bought you both one of these ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.