JamieP Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Iirc my single 044 max'd out at 730 fwhp on SSR dyno, that was stock fuel lines though, I bet 730 on a dyno dynamics is more like 850 on a rototest or dynapack though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Soiled Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Next year I'm going to start a 3.4 built engine for the car hopefully. I'm just on pricing parts at the moment. Thumbs up for this! Probably using HKS kit? Is there any vids of this car? Like to watch powerful supras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thumbs up for this! Probably using HKS kit? Is there any vids of this car? Like to watch powerful supras I'm going to build the kit with individual parts. I don't want to just go for a full kit. I'll build it over the space of a year or so. Think there's a Dyno vid in my project thread. I'll dig it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I currently have a single Bosch 044 pump mounted in the tank. Seeing as i'm intending on getting 800 bhp I was going to put another pump in and then run -8AN lines. Has anyone got a picture of a twin pump setup? Or even better a guide to building one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I currently have a single Bosch 044 pump mounted in the tank. Seeing as i'm intending on getting 800 bhp I was going to put another pump in and then run -8AN lines. Has anyone got a picture of a twin pump setup? Or even better a guide to building one? Just leave the 1 pump in. Myself and Jamie have made that power and more on a single pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Just leave the 1 pump in. Myself and Jamie have made that power and more on a single pump. Yeah I appreciate that but I also want to future proof the fuel setup whilst its in pieces and off the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Not really sure I follow you? His calculation of 360hp N/A is based on 914hp minus what he thinks a turbo at 1.5bar would be able to add to the power. That would tell me that he is saying at 1.5bar the power increase due to the boost would be 554hp. The 554hp figure is always going to vary massively with how efficient the turbo is at 1.5bar. As I said, at 1.5bar with UK turbos I think the power increase is 250hp (I remember reading the power rating of the TT running in N/A would be around 180 and I took 430 as the going max rate for those tubbys). Clearly the difference in the figures is down to the efficiency of the turbo as nothing else has changed with regards to the flow creation. Hmm i actually gave this abit more of a thought as i did not really think trough my first respond. if you have lets say for the ez 300 N/A HP with a turbo flowing good at 1 bar you would get around 600hp adding another 0.5bar would add somthing in the near 150hp. So to get to 914hp at 1.5 bar you would need to have a n/a engine provideing around 360hp. with modern turbo chargers some are even more effective then 100% but not 150% more effective. the bigger the turbo the more air it pumps however you need pressure for the delivery. however the flow does not really affect if you allready have the plenum toped off and the air temps at a good temp (not going outside the turbo compressor map over reving the turbo=hotter air/less effective) you would actually need boost to push more air in via the valve. Hmm this is just my thought but feel free to enlighten me if iam totally wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hmm i actually gave this abit more of a thought as i did not really think trough my first respond. if you have lets say for the ez 300 N/A HP with a turbo flowing good at 1 bar you would get around 600hp adding another 0.5bar would add somthing in the near 150hp. So to get to 914hp at 1.5 bar you would need to have a n/a engine provideing around 360hp. with modern turbo chargers some are even more effective then 100% but not 150% more effective. the bigger the turbo the more air it pumps however you need pressure for the delivery. however the flow does not really affect if you allready have the plenum toped off and the air temps at a good temp (not going outside the turbo compressor map over reving the turbo=hotter air/less effective) you would actually need boost to push more air in via the valve. Hmm this is just my thought but feel free to enlighten me if iam totally wrong I'm totally lost here on how your getting these figures. Where do you get the 600hp at 1bar from. Do you have a formula to work this out. Not questioning you I'm just interested in how you came by these numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) I currently have a single Bosch 044 pump mounted in the tank. Seeing as i'm intending on getting 800 bhp I was going to put another pump in and then run -8AN lines. Has anyone got a picture of a twin pump setup? Or even better a guide to building one? Depends on what dyno you want your 800bhp, going for 800bhp or there abouts a twin pump setup is worth going with imo, with any twin pump setup its also worth wiring in a fuel pressure sensor and linking to the ecu incase a pump fails, infact i think its worth doing on any high output car with single or twin pumps, you cant have to many saftey features. My staged twin 044 in tank setup. Edited September 21, 2011 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Adding 1bar of boost=100% increese in power (+-) obviously this depends on various bits such as intake temp, the compressor map not beeing overrun and that you can always topp of the plenum.(=flow) getting better flow is also increasing the N/A power. your engine would need pretty much to push out about 120hp/liter as N/A and that is alot especially when you have low compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Depends on what dyno you want your 800bhp, going for 800bhp or there abouts a twin pump setup is worth going with imo, with any twin pump setup its also worth wiring in a fuel pressure sensor and linking to the ecu incase a pump fails, infact i think its worth doing on any high output car with single or twin pumps, you cant have to many saftey features. My staged twin 044 in tank setup. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/jamie450x/5022093c.jpg Jamie, what size feed lines are you running on this setup ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Jamie, what size feed lines are you running on this setup ??? twin -8 into a -10 iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Adding 1bar of boost=100% increese in power (+-) obviously this depends on various bits such as intake temp, the compressor map not beeing overrun and that you can always topp of the plenum.(=flow) getting better flow is also increasing the N/A power. your engine would need pretty much to push out about 120hp/liter as N/A and that is alot especially when you have low compression. If it helps explain, in RWHP my Dyno plot gives me the following:- At 4000 rpm I'm producing 150 RWHP At 5500 rpm I'm producing 650 RWHP At 6993 rpm I'm producing 778 RWHP which equates to 914 BHP if you add 17% for transfer from flywheel to hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 twin -8 into a -10 iirc. Ahhhh I see. I was trying to work out how you ran the twin -8ANs on the hanger to the front. So you've gone twin -8AN from hanger to a Y-piece then -10AN to front then split to 2 x -8AN again for a twin feed rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Ahhhh I see. I was trying to work out how you ran the twin -8ANs on the hanger to the front. So you've gone twin -8AN from hanger to a Y-piece then -10AN to front then split to 2 x -8AN again for a twin feed rail. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisLupus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Adding 1bar of boost=100% increese in power (+-) obviously this depends on various bits such as intake temp, the compressor map not beeing overrun and that you can always topp of the plenum.(=flow) getting better flow is also increasing the N/A power. your engine would need pretty much to push out about 120hp/liter as N/A and that is alot especially when you have low compression. Your assumption is wrong. With that logic you could push the 900s with twin Hybrids at 1.5bar or would have to go over 3bar for that kind of figures. Power depends on the Volume of Air and Fuel that gets into the cylinder. A smaller Turbo pushing 1.5bar makes less power than a bigger at the same Pressure. That's because the bigger Turbo flows more Air with the same pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 nice setup jamie. first time i saw that dyno run of yours john, that turbo sounds sweet... are your BOV's noisy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 RPM dont really have alot to do with it. ill try to explain. the flow= amount of air pumped by the turbo and the amount it is compressed. if you where to add bigger valves,higher lifing cams porting the head to maximize flow it would also increase the N/A hp Gahh its hard to explain when iam not 100% confident in english.. there are some magic numbers or where more.. and that is getting 100hp/L engine volume. so getting 360hp from a 3L engine would be really really good. BMW s50b32 is a 3.2 liter engine and it produced 321bhp and that was really impressive at that point. a new modern turbo could reach beyond 100% maybe 105% but more is not really likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Your assumption is wrong. With that logic you could push the 900s with twin Hybrids at 1.5bar or would have to go over 3bar for that kind of figures. Power depends on the Volume of Air and Fuel that gets into the cylinder. A smaller Turbo pushing 1.5bar makes less power than a bigger at the same Pressure. That's because the bigger Turbo flows more Air with the same pressure. flow is noting without pressure. with you asumptions a 200mm turbo would produce 1000hp at 0.1bar. Edited September 21, 2011 by Hellstrom (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 nice setup jamie. first time i saw that dyno run of yours john, that turbo sounds sweet... are your BOV's noisy? Yeah pretty noisy mate. You can't really hear them from behind the car when I did the video but when it's on the road with the roof off it sounds like a couple of shotguns. There's a very slight time delay between the 2 were only talking maybe half a second but sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Flow is the volume of the air, but the volume of the air isn't as important as the density of that air is. The more air molecules the more fuel molecules can be mixed into the charge and the bigger the bang you get. At the exact same boost pressure you can have MASSIVELY different charges. A very easy example is a set of stock tubbys running at 1.5bar vs something like a GT45 running 1.5bar Feel like we're going round in circles here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 flow is noting without pressure. with you asumptions a 200mm turbo would produce 1000hp at 0.1bar. It probably would if you could spin it up. Flow and pressure are directly related in a known vessel, the same as density and temperature are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 RPM dont really have alot to do with it. ill try to explain. the flow= amount of air pumped by the turbo and the amount it is compressed. if you where to add bigger valves,higher lifing cams porting the head to maximize flow it would also increase the N/A hp Gahh its hard to explain when iam not 100% confident in english.. there are some magic numbers or where more.. and that is getting 100hp/L engine volume. so getting 360hp from a 3L engine would be really really good. BMW s50b32 is a 3.2 liter engine and it produced 321bhp and that was really impressive at that point. a new modern turbo could reach beyond 100% maybe 105% but more is not really likely. But this isn't a BMW, it's a Toyota Supra and that speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstrom Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Density is getting the air cold, that is done via an intercooler. when compressing air it also produce heat, heat makes the air get less density. afaik there is not other way of getting higher air density then getting it colder. now we are talking about turbo and how effective the turbo is. obviously you need pressure to stuff the Air in to the cylinders. the higher the pressure the more air gets in. a bigger turbo can maintain flow and not heating up the air more then nessesary. however its still the pressure thats push the air into the cylinders. more pressure more air. its abit hard to explain but afaik addin 1bar of boost can never really produce more then 100% more power (yeah like ive said new turbos are incredible good and might actually get 102-105% of power) iam not saying that a small turbo will produce equally as a big one at the same pressure iam just saying that adding 1bar of boost will not make your eninge more then ca 100% more effective in the best of worlds that is obviosly. some energy will get drained due to heat. Edited September 21, 2011 by Hellstrom (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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