Help with newly purchased Supra TT

[Guest J35_T3R]

I'm not fussed what its reading off the dyno, it feels bloody quick and really looks the part! A credit to the former owners....

[kslb]

Billy,

 

Firstly looking forward to meeting you and the motor on Sunday, secondly if you are happy with the car then that is all that is needed.

 

If you wanted to check the validity of the dyno print out then just put your car on a different well respected dyno and see what figure is produced.

 

My car made 577bhp at the fly on the RR that Michel Lane uses (think its motorscope)but the figure you get is unimportant as long as you are happy with the power and its delivery.

 

Regards

Keith

[ellis]

Brian,

 

This car is a bit of a curiosity, it's always been a bit "special" and seems to have much more power in general. No-one is certain what Kansai have done to the car, To the point where it was suspected that it may have aftermarket cams, with the Kansai map accomodating them. I would suggest that ripping the ECU out just to get to a known baseline is a bad idea with this car.

 

This was the car that Muffleman had prior to Ian and Sharon buying it from him.

 

Mike

 

Absolutely! So many on here that have absolutely no knowledge of the car and its history are soooooo quick to shoot it down in flames. I suggest that they get their facts staright before gobbing off and making inflamatory statements that they can't back up in any way at all. Knowing both the car and the owners I can say without any hesitation that they and the car are the straightest on here. Weston have one of the best RRs around and Gregg is one of the most knowlegdeable specialists I know of - neither the owners or Weston have anything to gain by making false claims.

 

If it ain't broke . . . . . .!!

[tDR]

TDR can i ask, what power figure are you running to manage to get 121mph in the quarter mile with little more than a self mapped ecu?

I'm just asking as you said Mid 13's would indicate the usual 400hp from a bpu supra, you are in the mid 11's with standard turbo's and fuel system so this would indicate to me you are pushing alot more than 400hp on standard turbo's

 

Yes I've seen high terminal speeds in the quarter mile and this would indicate higher than average power. What that power figure may be I'm not too concerned with and just accepted it was probably 'good'.

 

What you have to remember though is that on my 121mph terminal runs I've ran my custom race fuel map for 109 RON fuel and could only do that as I road mapped my car with the proper tuning aids to get the fuelling and timing spot on without detonation using the same fuel. My timing was suitably aggressive and my fuelling very optimised - both on maps with much greater resolution than 16 cells. The difference being I could tell you exactly what they were / how they were different from stock as I mapped the one (!) aftermarket ECU. It is important to know what exactly is going on with your car if these things have been played with...

 

As Jake rightly points out, my car was very much optimised to do the job of getting down the 1/4 mile quickly and there was more than just the ECU involved in doing so.

 

ps,

IMO ¼ miles times are not a good indicator of power but ¼ top speed is. (I believe TDR and many others agree). Good ¼ times are very dependant on the 60' times, the top speed less so.

 

Agree on both counts - that's why I originally asked billy for the 1/4 terminal speed as that's what I use to gauge a cars power as being 'average', 'below average' or 'a bit special' for a given spec. Dyno figures are very much open to interpretation.

 

A quick 1/4 mile is all about the launch - any time saved there in the 60 foot will save you up to a multiplier of 3x that amount of time over the course of the 1/4.

 

and i have to say that imho the dyno was reading fairly well spot on for the cars that were there - there was probably 10 different supras dynoed that day and I would say that the readings were as close to accurate as you can get................my dyno sheet is in my garage.

 

Checked your garage, 420bhp at 1.1bar for a BPU car is IMO 20 - 30bhp over egged but hey what do I know. All that is important is that you're happy with your own car

 

I just never was one for the hype hence I just said my car had 390bhp and did my thing on the 1/4

[tDR]

So many on here that have absolutely no knowledge of the car and its history are soooooo quick to shoot it down in flames.

 

Who's shooting it down in flames? I think the spec of the car and history have been covered in this very thread. Is there anything concrete that you'd like to add?

 

For the record, my opinion is that it's a very nice looking example that needs some changes to the spec to make it 'safe', hence pointing this out at length going by the facts presented in the interests of helping a fellow club member avoid a potential repair bill in future. I also think and have pointed out that 447bhp (especially at the wheels) is a wholly unrepresentitve power figure for this particular car but have to concede dyno power figures are a very subjective thing.

 

I suggest that they get their facts staright

 

The point exactly in this thread.

 

before gobbing off and making inflamatory statements that they can't back up in any way at all.

 

Or are you just sticking up for your mates?

 

Knowing both the car and the owners I can say without any hesitation that they and the car are the straightest on here.

 

Yep, that'll be it.

 

Weston have one of the best RRs around and Gregg is one of the most knowlegdeable specialists I know of - neither the owners or Weston have anything to gain by making false claims.

 

Every tuner has it's fanboi's, even the infamous Turbofit had a religious cult of a following. People have short memories round here. Not to say the staff at Weston aren't indeed very capable and knowledgeable.... I personally would just take their dyno figures with a pinch of salt and realise that they are a business out to make a profit like any other.

 

If it ain't broke . . . . . .!!

 

Fix it before it breaks... in the case of this particular car I'd say the configuration is sub-optimal and those in posession have been lucky

 

But hey ho, I'm experienced enough to know I'm never going to win an argument with a group of 10 or so friends and will henceforth withdraw from further participation - I've done my good deed for the day.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[TrickTT]

Checked your garage, 420bhp at 1.1bar for a BPU car is IMO 20 - 30bhp over egged but hey what do I know. All that is important is that you're happy with your own car

If i'd just gone there alone for a dyno run, then i would completely agree with you, but in comparison to other supras on the day, i'm not so sure. For example; a completely stock uk spec (Burnas) made 320ish bhp, Petes decatted VVTi made 370 ish and bignums (before the single)uk spec BPU made 385ish. All on the same dyno with the same operator, within a few hours.

Now i've never dyno'd mine before or since, so it might be over reading - but even if all the readings were 20bhp over, then billys motor is still making nearly 430 bhp at the fly so its one hell of a strong motor.

[kslb]

I personally would just take their dyno figures with a pinch of salt and realise that they are a business out to make a profit like any other.

 

I agree, every one seems to think that as the others produced what they believe to be accurate then the car in question must also be accurate but would it not be possible that a few inputs could have been changed in order to make the car they have been working on a little better and therefore outshine the others on the day?

 

Good business sense maybe..... A floored approach definately.

 

Not saying that is the case but a possibility.

[ellis]

I agree, every one seems to think that as the others produced what they believe to be accurate then the car in question must also be accurate but would it not be possible that a few inputs could have been changed in order to make the car they have been working on a little better and therefore outshine the others on the day?

 

Good business sense maybe..... A floored approach definately.

 

Why? If they wanted to impress etc they would have done it on all the cars, not just one! Your comment makes no sense whatsoever!

[Guest J35_T3R]

Nothing quite like some willy-waving power figures to get everyones back up!

 

 

Doesn't matter what it produces or what it's been dyno'd at in my opinion, only a passenger seat ride in it has made my mind up never to get another superbike but instead to find a TT once my house sells!!

[plus1]

If you like it, that's all that matters.

Since we have owned it, it has done two Dragonball's many random drives of over 500 miles, numerous pancake runs ( we live in Lincoln), the Pod and a track day.

It has never missed a beat, lost a drop of oil or water, has stood in standing traffic on very hot sunny days for long periods and still she is as reliable as a Honda;)

As Ellis said " If it aint broken........"

 

On a positive note, we hope you have as many happy miles in her as we did.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[billy bhoy]

i seem to have opend a can of worms!i think ill go cut one of my legs off and kick the shite out myself.this argument seems to have brought some big names from down south.forget the meet on sunday i think we should reanact the battle of bannochburn instead!!!

Edited October 1, 2009 by billy bhoy (see edit history)

[Geo]

i seem to have opend a can of worms!i think ill go cut one of my legs off and kick the $#@!e out myself.this arrgument seems to have brought some big names from down south.forget the meet on sunday i think we should reanact the battle of bannochburn instead!!!

 

Think it was me who opened the Can for you mate. Sorry!

 

Just enjoy the Supra mate and get along to the Meet. Wish my car was finished so i could get along.

[billy bhoy]

i wouldnt miss it,and nae worrys thats what its all about!!

[billy bhoy]

i can forsee a dyno day getting sorted kinda fast!!

[Guest Brian Mallon]

I read on a very informative website that the jap sepc turbo's can flow approx 200-225hp worth of air each, which equates to 400-450hp at the flywheel, which is what billy's dyno print proves.

 

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/techo.htm

 

I'd personally go with Dyno figures, i don't think the dyno operator is really that interested in the hp figure to manipulate it in any way, do you???? if that were the case there would be alot of 200hp saxo's going around

Edited October 2, 2009 by Brian Mallon (see edit history)

[RobSheffield]

I recall the last time this was brought up

 

Yes its likely not to be such a high power figure, iv seen the car and it looks stock under the bonnet. Its possible the dyno operator touched the figures a little (did they fit the Neo?)

 

What matters is that you have a nice car

[Guest Brian Mallon]

yes that right,when you looked under the bonnet you could see that nothing had been changed like the camshafts,turbos or injectors, you've got good eyes

 

I've noticed something on here and you know what, the people who have the hardes time believing the dyno figure are the people who think they are one step above all other supra owners as you are the "single turbo" people, and you don't like to see a "standard" supra in your eyes getting anywhere near your power figure as your figure is just SO much higher. a bit of turbo snobbery going on here!!

Edited October 2, 2009 by Brian Mallon (see edit history)

[RobSheffield]

yes that right,when you looked under the bonnet you could see that nothing had been changed like the camshafts,turbos or injectors, you've got good eyes

 

Yes you can see the injectors were JDM.

 

I've noticed something on here and you know what, the people who have the hardes time believing the dyno figure are the people who think they are one step above all other supra owners as you are the "single turbo" people, and you don't like to see a "standard" supra in your eyes getting anywhere near your power figure as your figure is just SO much higher. a bit of turbo snobbery going on here!!

 

As it happens i know the previous owners and was sticking up for them whilst playing devils advocate. I can see where Brian is coming from. ITs no good having a guy with a bone stock car claiming 450 bhp. Its fair enough if they do, but then all the new members will run to the shops and buy a Neo, and when it doesnt give much increase they will be demanding why not.

 

However, you keep seeing what you want to see

[Scott]

Why? If they wanted to impress etc they would have done it on all the cars, not just one! Your comment makes no sense whatsoever!

 

It doesn't make sense that the car they fettled with and "tuned" would make more power than the ones that didn't? Makes perfect sense to me. They would be planting the seed for more business from the people that are there. Can't really see where you missed this part?

 

i seem to have opend a can of worms!i think ill go cut one of my legs off and kick the shite out myself.this argument seems to have brought some big names from down south.forget the meet on sunday i think we should reanact the battle of bannochburn instead!!!

 

This forum is great for stuff like that. Just take it all as banter, the arse dyno is always better than any rollers. If you come across a healthy BPU car you will find out soon enough. Mine and Chris202 couldn't budge from each other. My boost gauge reads 0.9 and his reads 1.0 i think. I was in front and couldn't leave him but at the same time he couldn't catch me. I'm just pondering whether to fit my MBC and crank it to 1.2bar or whether to just hold off for an EBC so that i can get another lift.

 

yes that right,when you looked under the bonnet you could see that nothing had been changed like the camshafts,turbos or injectors, you've got good eyes

 

I've noticed something on here and you know what, the people who have the hardes time believing the dyno figure are the people who think they are one step above all other supra owners as you are the "single turbo" people, and you don't like to see a "standard" supra in your eyes getting anywhere near your power figure as your figure is just SO much higher. a bit of turbo snobbery going on here!!

 

No need to get all pissy when you just get on the forum. Its a generally very informative place and a lot of supra knowledge lives within the members on here.

 

How many green owners do you reckon see a high number and are happy yet see a low number and dispute it? It happens constantly. This forum has a massive history of BPU. The record at SRR was our very own Homer (Darryl) and he held it for ages. not sure who has it now. I have read some crackers over the years but you live and you learn.

 

We know what is possible from a BPU car. Extra fuel, mapping & cams might see that figure. We know the mapping is there, the cam's we can't be sure of but the injectors will be an easy spot. If either of them is missing it just won't happen.

[kslb]

Why? If they wanted to impress etc they would have done it on all the cars, not just one! Your comment makes no sense whatsoever!

 

It doesn't make sense that the car they fettled with and "tuned" would make more power than the ones that didn't? Makes perfect sense to me. They would be planting the seed for more business from the people that are there. Can't really see where you missed this part?

 

I didn't think it was that confusing!

[billy bhoy]

is there any tryed and trusted dynos out there that could give you an honest figure?

[Scott]

TDR recommended Dastek?

 

All you really want to do is compare it to other BPU surpas's. It doesn't matter the figure you get as long as the conditions are the same and the dyno is the same. Arrange a rolling road day, i dare say a few people would be up for it.. me included

[Nic]

is there any tryed and trusted dynos out there that could give you an honest figure?

 

The only way to get a true flywheel hp figure is on an engine dyno, ie. with the engine out of the car.

 

If you do get the car dynoed again I would recommend you getting the air fuel ratios double checked, with the combination of the aftermarket Japanese ECU and the Apexi Neo, there is a very real possibility that the timing and fueling could be way out for UK fuel. I'm not saying it is, but if it was my car I would want to be completely sure it wasn't.

[Dragonlady]

I can't believe that this is still going on.

 

We went through this last time after publishing the Weston Figures both from the mkiv dyno day and after the NEO was fitted - big mistake as we got a hard time as well.

 

We also asked the same question about a reliable and trustworthy dyno and to be honest what one person said was a good one another one said was cr*p, so there really is no common ground on this one.

 

I didn't want to post up about the Weston printout earlier but as everyone is hung up on the dyno print out and the increase in power there was after the NEO was fitted I think I need to. I am not sure what the printout is that Billy is looking at with the 380 value, I do remember Weston giving us 2 printouts when the NEO was fitted but can't remember what they were to be honest.

 

However I do know that on the MKIV dyno day before the NEo was fitted the car was pushing over 400 at the flywheel, and was slightly more the TrickTT's. From what I remember after fitting the NEO I think the increase in power was marginal, about 20/30 bhp. However i must point out that the NEO was not fitted to increase BHP.

 

Billy I am not sure of your reasons for putting the car on the dyno again, but if it is for your own personal interest then I would say go for it. However if it is to prove to the forum what the car is producing then I would definately forget it because my feeling is if the dyno shows more power than stock then some people will not believe you, and will call the readouts fake. Thats why we never bothered.

 

The only way that you could support the read-outs is to pull the engine apart and find out what has been done. That said chances are that when you put the engine back together that the car would be f&*@ed.

 

One thing you need to accept on this forum is that sometimes no matter what, people will argue against you, and won't agree to meeting you half way.

 

I apologise I should have warned you about publishing BHP figures on this forum - sorry

Edited October 2, 2009 by Dragonlady (see edit history)

[billy bhoy]

I can't believe that this is still going on.

 

We went through this last time after publishing the Weston Figures both from the mkiv dyno day and after the NEO was fitted - big mistake as we got a hard time as well.

 

We also asked the same question about a reliable and trustworthy dyno and to be honest what one person said was a good one another one said was cr*p, so there really is no common ground on this one.

 

I didn't want to post up about the Weston printout earlier but as everyone is hung up on the dyno print out and the increase in power there was after the NEO was fitted I think I need to. I am not sure what the printout is that Billy is looking at with the 380 value, I do remember Weston giving us 2 printouts when the NEO was fitted but can't remember what they were to be honest.

 

However I do know that on the MKIV dyno day before the NEo was fitted the car was pushing over 400 at the flywheel, and was slightly more the TrickTT's. From what I remember after fitting the NEO I think the increase in power was marginal, about 20/30 bhp. However i must point out that the NEO was not fitted to increase BHP.

 

Billy I am not sure of your reasons for putting the car on the dyno again, but if it is for your own personal interest then I would say go for it. However if it is to prove to the forum what the car is producing then I would definately forget it because my feeling is if the dyno shows more power than stock then some people will not believe you, and will call the readouts fake. Thats why we never bothered.

 

The only way that you could support the read-outs is to pull the engine apart and find out what has been done. That said chances are that when you put the engine back together that the car would be f&*@ed.

 

One thing you need to accept on this forum is that sometimes no matter what, people will argue against you, and won't agree to meeting you half way.

 

I apologise I should have warned you about publishing BHP figures on this forum - sorry

hi again the printout before the neo was fitted reads 370 then after it the neo was fitted it reads 447bhp.theres no way i would change anything on the car.i wouldnt take or add anything to it,it runs to sweet!anything any powerfuller than what i have i couldnt handle.its a nutter of a thing in my eyes and some others eyes.seing is beleving.ps ive never smiled so much thank you very much for the car sharon and ian!!!!!