Justin Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 OK I've got cats out, Blitz exhaust on, FCD, cooler plugs, Boost gauge. What should I look at next to get more power out of my J-Spec Auto guys? Can you add pros and cons if you can be bothered too. (I know that I need better pads too coz stopping is getting hairy) Ta Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 27, 2002 Share Posted October 27, 2002 Get an FMIC.... Once that is inplace you can go for more fuel and hybrids. Get the best FMIC you can afford...as you can't have one that is too good! Also check the condition of your cooling system, as the FMIC blocks the airflow to the rad forcing ot to work harder. If your rad has done 10 years and 100,000miles like mine had...you'll have to replace/upgrade it! HKS FMIC's are easy to come by and do the job but a custom job from say Docking Engineering might actually be only a bit more expensive but definately more efficient. They also do rads so you could get both done together..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted October 28, 2002 Author Share Posted October 28, 2002 Cheers Alex, will I get much more power from just fitting the intercooler or will I have to fit other bits before I get any noticeable gains? Secondly will most intercoolers fit behind the standard front bumper? Ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 will I get much more power from just fitting the intercooler It's not so much the intercooler giving you the power than the intercooler removing more heat from the air charge and thus allowing you to increase the boost of the turbos to obtain more power. You only have so much fuel and fuel is often used as a coolant in combustion engines as well as for power giving energy. You can only safely combust fuel below certain temperatures or detonation and other nasty effects to the engine happen, damaging it. By fitting a larger intercooler you can improve the natural cooling of the air charge (pressurised air) and thus less fuel would be needed to cool the air charge down and can be used safetly to combust as pure engine power. Of course you can increase the boost so much that the intercooler is now just as inefficient as the old one was, so that's the limit. Hence get as good a one as you can afford as this will ultimately limit the max boost you can run. Realistically the engine internals or turbos would probably need attention before you actually needed an even bigger intercooler than the standard sizes most people go for. (what I'm saying is go for the biggest you can fit in and that will be plenty) regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Quote: "(what I'm saying is go for the biggest you can fit in and that will be plenty)" I am still very new to all of this, but can someone explain what are the advantages of getting an FMIC that is bigger than the front intake. I was having this discussion the other day and as far as I can see it does not make any sense to have one any bigger as the x-sectional area of air that will get to it cannot be increased any further. Please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Mark, Not quite sure what you mean but I'll have a stab. An FMIC is a good upgrade because they tend to be twice to 3 times as large a frontal area ie 600x300mm is good the stocker is 200x200 I believe. Within that space you have more tubes for the air to pass through and more fins to help dissipate the heat in the internal air flow into the external one. The more efficient cores have better fin design and more tubes per sq. cm. Do you see what I'm driving at??? Its not the internal air flow that matters its the external one... The "best" FMIC's IMO are Greddy 4ROW HKS Type R Greddy 3ROW + the biggest of the ARC range. Apex'i (not sure what the name is but Ian C has one...about 600x300x70mm) Otherwise a custom one is best. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Moving rapidly to the right end of the stick, Mark wants to know - why get an intercooler that's bigger than the hole in the front of the bumper that feeds air to it. Good point. Anyone? I'm crap at computational flow dynamics, as the whole "big second turbo" thread proved... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted October 28, 2002 Share Posted October 28, 2002 Originally posted by Ian C Moving rapidly to the right end of the stick, Mark wants to know - why get an intercooler that's bigger than the hole in the front of the bumper that feeds air to it. Good point. Anyone? I'm crap at computational flow dynamics, as the whole "big second turbo" thread proved... -Ian The radiator is bigger than the air intake;) ................ Seriously tho' , I agree that an FMIC doesn't get enough airflow with the stock bumper I cut a slot in the bumper ( and the crossmember behind it) to get more air to the top of the IC ....... I've also fitted a plate between the rad and the top of the bumper to ensure all the air goes thro the FMIC /rad and doesn't escape over the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 At first it does appear simple that if two cars, both with the same large intercooler but one has a bigger frontal area in the spoiler will prove superior. The greater the mass of ambient air that can go through the intercooler the greater the cooling ability. The air flow rate is a product of vehicle speed and frontal area. Airflow rate = speed * area Thus bigger frontal area means better cooling. BUT.... Ducting is being used on the SUPRA. Ducting is a method of directing the incoming airflow to only go through the intercooler and not around the outside. Ducting must have sealed edges and corners etc. It is NOT neccessary for the frontal area to be the same size as the intercooler area and the rule of thumb that it should be at least 1/4 the size. SO!!! You don't have to go cutting great holes in the front spoiler but you WILL and DO need to make a good duct. Which is why the undertray of the engine is very important, not least of all for high speed stability but also cooling. However DON'T DUCT the incomming air to the air filter. The SUPRA is NOT a RAM air system. The ambient air intake must be placed in a cool but large volume of air so the car can suck as much as it wants. Coming back to ducts. The best ducts are those that are smaller on the outside than the inside. I've atached a picture from Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. A very good book to read on the subject of turbo-charged cars. ISBN 0-8376-0160-6 Hope that helped. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 I've got cats out, Blitz exhaust on, FCD, cooler plugs, Boost gauge. getting back to the question..... You need to fit either a mechanical bleeder T arrangement in the turbo control or an electronic boost controller to up the boost. But an FMIC would be recommended, although I don't have one yet :-( I fitted water injection as a stop gap and I appear to have stuck with it. Honestly I do need an FMIC especially with hybrids. But then I only run 18psi max. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted October 29, 2002 Author Share Posted October 29, 2002 Pete, good info thanks. The thing is I am already running at 17.7 psi with a restrictor plate in the pipeline. So really the bleeder valve wont help me will it. Can I run a few questions by you guys: 1. Is it safe to say that you can't really get much more than 360 bhp out of a Supe with the standard Jap Turbos in place? 2. If I want to get to between 400/450bhp do I need FMIC, Hybrids Turbos, any fuelling mods, ECU? What else would I need? 3. With hybrids what safe boost should I expect to be running at? I think my goal is about 450BHP. Thanks a lot guys. After seeing that bird with the Skyline on BBC last night I don't wnat her beating me on the strip EVER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisR Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Justin, I take it you got the restrictor ring made bigger then, how much bigger. I will need one when i get a Blitz Nur Spec fitted. Regards Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted October 29, 2002 Share Posted October 29, 2002 Originally posted by Justin Pete, good info thanks. The thing is I am already running at 17.7 psi with a restrictor plate in the pipeline. So really the bleeder valve wont help me will it. Can I run a few questions by you guys: 1. Is it safe to say that you can't really get much more than 360 bhp out of a Supe with the standard Jap Turbos in place? 2. If I want to get to between 400/450bhp do I need FMIC, Hybrids Turbos, any fuelling mods, ECU? What else would I need? 3. With hybrids what safe boost should I expect to be running at? I think my goal is about 450BHP. Thanks a lot guys. After seeing that bird with the Skyline on BBC last night I don't wnat her beating me on the strip EVER! 1. Sounds about right. 2. Ian and I produced a list of required parts/prices for J-spec and UK spec cars. You should be able to search for it no problem. 3. Depends on the hybrids turbo's you use. Boost pressure isn't a indication of BHP as such. As for the 420BHP Skyline, there's every chance she would kick your butt even with hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted October 29, 2002 Author Share Posted October 29, 2002 This is true but a lady driven Skyline (all respect given) isn't the main reason for wanting to get to 450bhp. Thanks for the reply Gavin. Things are getting clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted October 30, 2002 Author Share Posted October 30, 2002 Is it true then that I will get more horsey power by having colder air in the engine even with stock turbos? IE with an intercooler fitted? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Yes, with any turobcharged engine, colder air = more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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