Miguel Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) Welcome on board Ken. Your wealth of experience will be of great benefit to this forum I've followed your Supra's over on SF for quite some time and I echo the sentiments of those before me, stunning looking motor vehicles Edited October 11, 2009 by Miguel (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I've been watching this thread with interest from the start simply to try and gain knowledge , however I felt I had to comment when Ken busted out them pics.....O...M...G. Both cars are stunners, absolutely brilliant, you clearly have an eye for good taste modifying I think you should post them up in the multimedia section though for everyone to see. I doubt a lot of members on here will still be reading this thread, and it'd be a shame for them to miss out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Love the pics Ken, you have 2x very tastefully done Supras! Think my ideal would be Eu Rouge in Black lol (I love stock body with nice wheels) So by implication you are saying twins are harder to get going... which to me also implies they are too top endy for typical UK goals. The graph overlays seem to support this. I hear what Ken is saying about 2540's being more sensibly sized twins but when all factors are considered the likes of a T67 DBB on stock cams is hard to beat when thinking of availability of decent priced off the shelf kits and bang per buck that gives you a very nice to drive, hard hitting street car. Not sure on the whitepapers mentioned - would have to read them to make any real comment but anticipate the context is very different to use in a fast road setup on a Supra with a power goal around 600bhp fly. Yes Ken's twin car puts out some seriously impressive numbers but personally can't help but feel on the average UK backroad (certainly on most of the Scottish particularly winding roads) that the better weapon would be the setup I've mentioned above - area under the curve and all that! I'm sure in the states such a car makes waaay more sense given the roads and block layouts you tend to have over there. Cheers, Brian. Yes on the dyno this is a big issue but on road the car has sufficient load to spool the turbos very nicely indeed. I wouldnt say they are too top endy for our roads at all, the car is very drivable in the twistys. Your right for most people with 600hp goals the single kits are far better for many reasons. If you want big power, something different and can afford it then the big twins are great IMO. I think one of the ultimate setups for track or even fast road would be a stroked high compression engine with big twins sized for around 650hp. mmm, maybe next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hello Ken Good to see you here, and thanks for your sizeable first contribution. I've always heard that, like for like, two smaller turbos is better than one big one. In my contributions to this thread, I wasn't at any point arguing that one big turbo is better than two smaller ones. I was just saying that the pair on Lee's Supra seem too big for the rev limit/motor/setup, as they don't start blowing hard until the last 1000rpm or so. That's based on the info supplied, which to be fair is all I could go on (beats making it up ). Just thought I'd clear that up. I think most of us go for a single tubbie for cost and simplicity reasons. The packaging is easier, our steering wheel is on the correct side so a twin setup is even trickier to fit, they cost more etc etc and for most of us, 500 to 600bhp is more than enough for our roads and big brother fun police. It's our sensible British reserve Getting traction off the line at Santa Pod is no real test of a turbo either, a much large factor is driver skill and experience I suspect. I hear that terminal speed is the big indicator of overall power, though. -Ian Ian, Excellent points and pretty much sums up this discussion quite well (I take it you are the same Ian, along with Wez, I discussed cam testing with on SF). Your post above also pointed out to me that my frame of reference was U.S. roads and highways and, of course, yours relate to the typical road conditions you find in the UK. Also, of my six buddies that have versions of the HKS twins, four have built motors and support mods (head work; 4-inch exhausts, etc.) that tend to reduce spool. I am unfamiliar with Lee's set-up in terms of its overall state of tune and performance characteristics but he did hit upon the core issue of twin-turbo sizing; that is to say, sizing your turbos for 1.5L of displacement. There is no doubt the HKS twins are more expensive and complex than the typical single turbo set-up and, particularly for the uninitiated, requires more effort for installation and the like. Many Supra enthusiasts accept without qualification that twins are inherently more unreliable than twins. Here again, my personal experience, and that of my friends, put the lie to this "conventional wisdom". My buddy that owns the 813 whp above (Clash of the Titans II car on SF) has over 72,000 issue-free miles on his HKS 2835Rs. His experience is unremarkable in my immediate circle of friends with HKS twins. Having two of everything certainly increases the prospects of things that can go wrong. That said, the quality of a BNIB HKS twins kit is unmatched in the aftermarket industry, IMO, and, properly installed and tuned, should provide the owner years of high performance bliss. Below is a post I made sometime ago on SF in the road racing subforum. The vids are not directly on point to this discussion (car has 3.4L stroker), but shows the road racing/fast street driving potential of a properly set up HKS twins car. A couple of noteworthy items: The car has 265 mm tires on the rear, small by American standards. I have 265s on the front of Eau Rouge and 275s on the front of Blackie. Second, the driver of this car does all the passing. Regardless of single versus twins persuasion, I think all Supra enthusiasts will get a kick out of these vids if you haven't seen them before: Nils, Not sure if you ever saw these vids. The car is a HKS 3.4L GT2835, having evolved from a Blitz K27, HKS TO4R, HKS T-51 Kai and then the above set-up. The car has 265 tires to handle the power... Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Guys, Thanks for all the kind words. Just so you know, I am technologically illiterate and posting pics of my cars, which are hosted by a good friend of mine, is a major accomplishment. The pics I posted were taken by a very good photographer friend of mine and are the most recent I have of both cars. I will see if I can find some motor pics and post them up accordingly. Thanks again for the compliments. Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I've been watching this thread with interest from the start simply to try and gain knowledge , however I felt I had to comment when Ken busted out them pics.....O...M...G. Both cars are stunners, absolutely brilliant, you clearly have an eye for good taste modifying I think you should post them up in the multimedia section though for everyone to see. I doubt a lot of members on here will still be reading this thread, and it'd be a shame for them to miss out Will do. Thanks. Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Motor pics of Eau Rouge. The only noticeable changes made of late not reflected in the pics are the removal and sale of my Tein Flex coilovers with EDFC and replacement of the Teins with HKS Hipermax IIIs. Plus, all of the blue couplers are now black. I have no pics of the motor with these changes, so here goes: Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Spotless:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Pics of Blackie's engine compartment. The first one was taken by a good photographer. The rest (low quality) were taken by me. I really do not have many pics of my cars in terms of interiors and engine compartments. I'll try to remedy this in the future. Hope you like. Engine bay front driver 1/4 Engine bay front Engine bay turbo intakes highlight Engine bay driver side ARC radiator highlight VeilSide throttlebody and twin Blitz Dual-Drive BOV highlight Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Here is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky49 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Lovely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chingy Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Great work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Nice pics Ken - thanks for posting up. On the black car - is that a different brake master cylinder to the original OEM one or am I just imagining things? Edit - I think I'm just used to seeing the RHD drive ones that look a little different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Had to find my sunglasses. Amazing, I applaud your housekeeping skills I could never envisage an engine bay like that, I am too impatient and would knacker it up in a week anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony tt Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Great pics fantastic work there a credit to you ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen G Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Just as nice under the hood. Ken do you know if it is possible to get the SP Engineering t shirt with Blackie on it showing the front of the car and the engine and i think it had 1115 whp wrote on it? I checked there web site but could not see it for sale or was it a special one-off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Here is a good one. http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd152/supralee/blackie.jpg Thanks, Lee. That's more like it. Inside SP Engineering is a great place to take pics and its website photog is pretty good. Lovely Great work Thanks for the compliments, guys. Nice pics Ken - thanks for posting up. On the black car - is that a different brake master cylinder to the original OEM one or am I just imagining things? Edit - I think I'm just used to seeing the RHD drive ones that look a little different! dandan, yeah, just imagining things... Your comment made me realize, though, that big twins are a bit more trouble in RHD cars, something Lee could comment on expertly, I guess. Had to find my sunglasses. Amazing, I applaud your housekeeping skills I could never envisage an engine bay like that, I am too impatient and would knacker it up in a week anyway Chris, I'm pretty anal, I guess you could say. The trick for me in keeping engine bays clean is staying on top of it. It's much easier to keep them clean if they never get really dirty. Thanks for the kind words. Great pics fantastic work there a credit to you ken Thanks, Tony. I've owned Blackie since new (February 1994) and Eau Rouge since June of 2006. I've got a lot of time, money and love invested in them, but especially in Blackie. Couldn't imagine a world without her. Just as nice under the hood. Ken do you know if it is possible to get the SP Engineering t shirt with Blackie on it showing the front of the car and the engine and i think it had 1115 whp wrote on it? I checked there web site but could not see it for sale or was it a special one-off? slutdog, Those T shirts were a special one-off that SP Engineering had made before the SILV04 dyno competition. The shirts actually had 1,076 whp on them, I believe, because that is the number we posted for Turbo magazine when the car was on the cover in November 2004. At the SILV04 Dyno Invitational, the car made 1110 whp and won the competition outright. There was some talk about another run of shirts with the new number but we never got around to it. I'll check to see if they have any laying around and let you know. Years later, I discovered SPE had produced 1115 whp and 840 rwt three days before the SILV04 competition during testing. Our goal for the dyno competition was to back-up the 1076 whp we had generated for Turbo magazine so, when the car did 1090 and 1096 in testing, I knew we would be ready for Vegas. Having backed up the Turbo mag number, I guess I stopped paying attention. I wasn't aware of the 1115 whp dyno sheet until last year when we were tuning with Q16 for the first time. Anyway, if there is ever a new run with the 1115 number, I'll be sure to let you know. Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KenHenderson Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 suprastu, My apologies. I did not intend to hijack your thread. I'm usually very good about staying on topic. I guess the very warm welcome got me going... Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Ian, Excellent points and pretty much sums up this discussion quite well (I take it you are the same Ian, along with Wez, I discussed cam testing with on SF). Yeah that's me, I also did the T67 Journal vs DBB comparison thing (death by Excel charts) which made it across the ocean to SF Thanks for the shiny pictures. Best thread hijack evarrr -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Quick question Ken (apologies again guys for the hijack). How did you get to keep the TRD strut brace and standard fan shroud with the Do-Luck bonnet? I have the same bonnet (a genuine on, not a copy) as well as the TRD strut brace, and I ended up removing the strut brace and cutting the shroud to stop from cutting the bonnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Welcome to the club Ken, you own 2 VERY nice Supras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supradoopa Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Stunning Supras Ken, welcome aboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen G Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Many Thanks Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 dandan, yeah, just imagining things... Your comment made me realize, though, that big twins are a bit more trouble in RHD cars, something Lee could comment on expertly, I guess. Ken. It actually doesnt prove to be a problem, as long as you fit a heat shield as I have. If you dont then it can boil the brake and clutch fluid and even melt the reservoir if you track the car. Not as nice as Ken's but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Is Christian's HKS twin turbo black car still around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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