derren brown on tonight

[AndrewOW]

'Real' magic? What, like Gandalf?

 

 

No, Tommy Cooper.

 

Spoon, jar. Jar, spoon. You get the picture.

[Scott]

OK, what I just don't understand is (a) why anyone thinks that he's deceitful and (b) why anyone would be annoyed about that anyway.

 

I can't see why any part of his act is deceitful. If you watch any magician, you already know that things are not what they appear, that's why you are watching: to enjoy being fooled. If a magician says, or implies, that he has retrieved a coin from behind your ear, there's no deceit. You know and he knows that it was never really there.

 

Nor can I see any deceit in the lack of explanation. First of all, he makes it quite clear that the main method described (i.e. group prediction) isn't how he did it. So the only deceit is if someone was watching the programme with a 100% expectation of an explanation - and why would anyone think that? After all, magicians very rarely give away their secrets. That's how Penn and Teller could market themselves successfully. Anyone who has seen DB before knows that you get occasional glimpses of explanations - like the coin tossing one - particularly if he can take a poke at psychic beliefs.

 

Everything a magician does is deceitful, in the name of entertainment. So again, accusing a magician of being too deceitful seems like accusing an actor of pretending too much.

 

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

 

 

'Real' magic? What, like Gandalf?

 

He started the show by saying none of the theory's on how the effect was done are correct. No camera tricks were used.

 

Any magician worth his salt would never use camera tricks and then say they haven't. In fact i would go as far to say noone i know have used camera tricks.

 

I understand what you are saying but he is blatantly lying about effects. There is no mysticism in what he did. Its not "magic". Its a con. I know, i know you could say all magic is a con. There is an art to it though, an art which DB has lost in the strive for success and popularity. Magic hasn't been popular since the likes of Penn & Teller.

 

BTW he explained the horse racing effect previously. I think that was the last tv special he did.

[michael]

Magic hasn't been popular since the likes of Penn & Teller.

 

David Blaine?

[lexsum]

Jerry sadowitz is fantastic as a live magician (gandalf was great too but might be dead now; )

[Willson]

... he makes it quite clear that the main method described (i.e. group prediction) isn't how he did it.

 

He did?

[JohnA]

...I read some comments by Ian Rowlings (Rawling?), who is one of the foremost experts on cold reading, ...

 

I would recommend his book on cold reading:), Derren Brown based most of his first acts using those methods.

[Scott]

David Blaine?

 

He did start off promising but turned into a nutter. Semi traditional magic - stuntman. You are right though, he was popular with the layman, just not magicians. I don't know 1 single magician with anything good to say about Blaine, in private of course.

[RedM]

Gerry Sadowitz up close FTW.

[Tannhauser]

I understand what you are saying but he is blatantly lying about effects. There is no mysticism in what he did. Its not "magic". Its a con. I know, i know you could say all magic is a con. There is an art to it though, an art which DB has lost in the strive for success and popularity.

 

Right, I'm with you now. Well, he may or may not have used a camera trick for this particular trick - doesn't bother me either way, especially as other stuff in that show - and in his live shows- apparently doesn't. I guess the fact that you can't trust the explanations any more than the act is part of the fun, or the frustration, depending on your perspective,

 

He did?

 

Well, he did that whole thing about how he definitely didn't fiddle the lottery machine, hence strongly implying that he did (even though that is plainly untrue), which in turn implies that he didn't do it using the group.

 

I would recommend his book on cold reading:), Derren Brown based most of his first acts using those methods.

 

Thanks, John. I am aware of his book, and it's on my list, I just haven't got around to ordering it.

[Scott]

I would recommend his book on cold reading:), Derren Brown based most of his first acts using those methods.

 

Again, he said that he did but he did not. He said he used psychology to get what he wanted from people (greyhound race). In actual fact he used hypnosis. As i said before, never listen to what he says about how he does something.

 

If you want to know about cold reading check out max maven's stuff.

[Tannhauser]

He said he used psychology to get what he wanted from people (greyhound race). In actual fact he used hypnosis. .

 

What is the distinction between him 'using psychology' and hypnosis?

 

If he used hypnosis on the 'horse racing' (which I'm not sure I recall), then he did use a 'psychological technique'. Whether you think that hypnosis is a special 'state', or take a social constructionist view of it, it's still a psychological technique, isn't it?

 

I'm checking out Max Maven, but I've first got to get over the fact that he looks very silly indeed.

[Scott]

What is the distinction between him 'using psychology' and hypnosis?

 

If he used hypnosis on the 'horse racing' (which I'm not sure I recall), then he did use a 'psychological technique'. Whether you think that hypnosis is a special 'state', or take a social constructionist view of it, it's still a psychological technique, isn't it?

 

I'm checking out Max Maven, but I've first got to get over the fact that he looks very silly indeed.

 

Not the horse racing, the greyhound track.

 

I don't remember the exact details but its something like this. He takes a punter and gets them to make a couple of bets. In the first race the dog he bets on loses but brown goes up to the teller and says that it is the winner. The lady checks the ticket and says unfortunately it wasn't. He slams his hand on the side of the wall next to the window and then says that it was the winner. She re-checks the ticket then pays out. He explains to the guy that its all about being firm etc etc (shrink methods). The guy trys it, doing exactly the same as brown cept without the hand slap. The woman says no and brown slaps his hand next to the window and says exactly what he did before (word for word if i recall correctly) the girl then pays out on the line.

 

This is clearly hypnosis. He explains it totally differently claiming that he was just being firm, claiming that it was psychological techniques the same as he does with all his bullshit explanations. I can't explain it using the terms he did as i don't know them.

 

Unfortunately i am not learned enough in the subject or articulate enough in general to explain this to you properly. He didn't just do the effect then say it was psychological, he explained it in detail.... details that i don't recall. If you are interested then i would suggest watching it, it should be available on youtube? You will understand where i am coming from if you do.

 

Max Maven looks like a complete nutjob but he is by far the best in the business when it comes to cold reading and pretty much all mentalism.

[Thorin]

Load of crap, can't believe I sat through and watched it.

[JohnA]

...

Thanks, John. I am aware of his book, and it's on my list, I just haven't got around to ordering it.

PM sent - if you don't look in the right place it may be hard to find