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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Stuck in first gear in the morning


meandthecar

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Could anyone offer any help as to why when the engine is cold (or possibly it has been left for a couple of hours), my Jap Auto has difficulty getting out of 1st gear? It is becoming a pain. As soon as the car "gets going", it cycles through the gears fine. Could it be something to do with the MPH converter?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

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Who topped it up?

 

 

The computer control of the auto box does have a protection circuit which does not allow upshifts until the fliud reaches a safe temperature. However this usually occurs in the first 30 seconds or so at this time of year. Within about 200 yards of a cold start I have full use of all gears.

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Not necessarily,

 

Hi and welcome to the BBS BTW

 

The auto box is an amazing bit of kit but does not like low or dirty fluid.

 

To check the level, drive the car for 10 - 15 miles but not too hard. Park on level ground, leave the engine running for the whole checking process, this is most important other wise your will get a false high reading. With your foot on the brake run through all gears passing through neutral a few times, this ensure the fluid is dispersed round the system and not sitting in the sump. Place the selector in park. Take out the dipstick wipe it, reinsert and check the level, it should be at or close to the high mark.

 

The fluid should be red to orange in colour if it is brown it is old and tired. If it smells of burnt toast it is old and tired. It does help to have new fluid to compare it to.

 

If you have problems we can continue this later. The box only accepts one type of fluid, many main dealers don’t know the correct fluid, I know as I have phoned several and asked, not one gave the correct answer.

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Most problems with an autobox are caused by the fluid. Not enough, too much, too old or burnt, wrong type of fluid, that sort of thing. This is where the questions have to be asked to start with. Speaking as a manual owner, I can't recall the exact type of fluid required in a MkIV's autobox, but I'm sure it will be mentioned in this thread soon.

 

Could need a full flush of the system.

 

However - if there is a circuit which checks the temperature of the ATF fluid, and doesn't let the box shift gears until it's at a certain temperature, and this problem has started occuring in the cold weather, perhaps there is something up with this bit of the system? It's not calibrated or it's shafted or something?

 

-Ian

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Thanks a lot for the answers so far guys I REALLY appreciate being pointed in the right direction. My main concern is that a relacement gearbox would be ridiculously expensive, so any knowledge I can have to help sort the problem is great.

 

I will check the level/quality this weekend and let you know what the story is. I have also been told that there is a sensor for the Gearbox oil getting to hot, so it could be linked to the temperature is some way.

 

Thanks again

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Originally posted by meandthecar

I have also been told that there is a sensor for the Gearbox oil getting to hot, so it could be linked to the temperature is some way.

Thanks again

 

 

This one kicks as protection in after serious abuse when the fluid is very hot, it should limit the functions of the box so that the fluid can cool down, then normal box functions resume, I would doubt that your first gear problem is related to this function, as I would have expected to see problems in the warmer weather.

 

As has been said before it sounds like a fluid problem. There are several solenoid valves in the box that can stick with the fluid is dirty and cold, causing temporary loss of box functions.

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if i remember correctly, the low fluid temp sensor stops the use of 3rd and 4th when cold, and like terminator says this shouldnt last very long.

 

does this happen if u let the car idle until it reaches opt temp and then drive it? the box fluid is warmed by the coolant in the radiator.

 

if everything goes to plan (for me) i may have a used auto tranny for sale for at reasonable price if yr problem turns out to b something really bad.

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No problem...

 

1) I start it up.

2) Then from Park to Reverse to get out of the driveway

3) Put it in Drive gear

4) Pull away - will not climb to 2nd gear (MANU has no effect i.e. cannot force it into 2nd - the MANU light is on, but it just does not do anything)

5) Drive about 30 seconds (v. slow in 1st)

6) Go to Neutral/Reverse/Park at junction

7) Go to Drive to pull out of junction

8) Sometimes still sticking to 1st (repeat step 6)

9) Usually will go to 2nd when throttle is eased off

10) Fine hereafter

 

The whole think lasts a minute (at worst, so far). I have definitely noticed that if the car has only sat for an hour or less, the problem does not happen. Do you think this is a) temperature, b) transmission fluid movement (not all in sump after one hour), or c) something in the (gearbox?) ECU?

 

BTW, the manual just says, "Toyota Automatic Transmission Fluid Type II"

 

Any use?

 

Howler

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That does not sound too serious at all, probably just a fluid thing. The box retains heat for ages so your fluid will be warm after an hour

 

Check the level, if the level is OK check fluid condition especially if you have no records of previous changes. If the fluid is suspect, a partial drain and replace is not difficult and would probably speed up your cold start box changes.

 

Type II fluid is now replaced by TypeIV, several main dealers told me to use Type III. Type II and IV are compatible, Type III is not, if you have Type III in the box you need a complete fluid change.

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I don’t think so, if the mechanic you use, knows his stuff then the fluid level will be OK. If he did not, then the box may not have been fully warm and he may have topped up to the hot mark when the cold mark should have been used. If he did not use the engine running method above then the level would be reading higher before he topped it up, so your level would still be low.

 

Neither is a major problem just don’t do any record breaking standing ¼’s till you get it checked.

 

You can only ask what fluid he used, if it was Type III, I don’t think it a major problem as long as it gets sorted in the near future. I think you get a sludge build up with mixed fluids

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Meand the car,

Welcome to the bbs m8.....

 

Very good info and advise given to you here my friend.

My 2 pence would tell you to go get the trany fluid flushed and fresh fluid(correct spec) put in, and to the correct levels.

Run the car for a day using all gears, manual mode, reverse etc abit. So as to get the new fluid circulated proper.

And hopefully you will be sorted:thumbs:

 

Also while under there doing the fluid cx, have a look for a sensor(temp), see if it can be taken out, if it can, have a general look and a little clean etc before refitting it.

I don't have an Auto so can't really tell what exactly to look for, can't think of more than 2 sets of wiring to the trany, so one may be it.

This last bit I'm on about the sensor is a shot in the dark here, but as Terminator said, there is a temp sensing devise on the trany, if it's external and replacable 'I don't know'..

But it can't hurt to have a butchers while under the car having the fluid replaced!

 

good luck!

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Originally posted by meandthecar

Thanks Terminator

 

Do you think I am doing any damage to the Gearbox with this niggling "cold-start" problem? Do I need to get on this really urgently?

 

Welcome. Not wanting to panic you, but you MUST get the level checked correctly, straight away. if it's low you could get a similar fault. It will do damage, VERY expensive damage, if it is low... It could be umpteen different things. I am in Shropshire, between Whitchurch and Shrewsbury, off the A49. I do a LOT of work on the MKIV Supras. If you want me to have a look I will do. I am also good pals with one of the best auto box men in the UK, if not Europe. If the diagnosis is an internal fault then I can get him to sort it for you. Don't delay though, you might be making long term expense if you carry on using it as it is. Good luck!

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Originally posted by Chris Wilson

 

Welcome. Not wanting to panic you, but you MUST get the level checked correctly, straight away. if it's low you could get a similar fault. It will do damage, VERY expensive damage, if it is low...

 

 

Chris in your experience how long should it take the auto box to switch to full gear range from a cold start. The hand book only says that OD will not be avaiable when engine coolant temperature is low.

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Originally posted by Terminator

This one kicks as protection in after serious abuse when the fluid is very hot, it should limit the functions of the box so that the fluid can cool down, then normal box functions resume

 

I'm pretty certain that when this is 'active' it flashes one of the warning lights on the dash.

 

In fact here is one I prepared earlier....

http://www.cargills.demon.co.uk/supra/BBSImages/ManualScan-3.jpg

 

 

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