meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Could anyone offer any help as to why when the engine is cold (or possibly it has been left for a couple of hours), my Jap Auto has difficulty getting out of 1st gear? It is becoming a pain. As soon as the car "gets going", it cycles through the gears fine. Could it be something to do with the MPH converter? Any help would be greatly appreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 When was the last gearbox oil change done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Changed last week - problem has been around 4 weeks now. The only variable I could think of was the weather.... I am NOT that smart with cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Sorry Matt - I should say "topped up" last week, not changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Who topped it up? The computer control of the auto box does have a protection circuit which does not allow upshifts until the fliud reaches a safe temperature. However this usually occurs in the first 30 seconds or so at this time of year. Within about 200 yards of a cold start I have full use of all gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 My regular mechanic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Have you or do you know how to check it your self, as many mechanics dont know how either. Do you know what fluid he used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 I don't know how to check , or what fluid he used. However, this problem was happening before any top up took place. The guy who looks after my car only does Jap import motors, so I would hope that he knows what he is doing. This is going to be tough one, isn't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Not necessarily, Hi and welcome to the BBS BTW The auto box is an amazing bit of kit but does not like low or dirty fluid. To check the level, drive the car for 10 - 15 miles but not too hard. Park on level ground, leave the engine running for the whole checking process, this is most important other wise your will get a false high reading. With your foot on the brake run through all gears passing through neutral a few times, this ensure the fluid is dispersed round the system and not sitting in the sump. Place the selector in park. Take out the dipstick wipe it, reinsert and check the level, it should be at or close to the high mark. The fluid should be red to orange in colour if it is brown it is old and tired. If it smells of burnt toast it is old and tired. It does help to have new fluid to compare it to. If you have problems we can continue this later. The box only accepts one type of fluid, many main dealers don’t know the correct fluid, I know as I have phoned several and asked, not one gave the correct answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Most problems with an autobox are caused by the fluid. Not enough, too much, too old or burnt, wrong type of fluid, that sort of thing. This is where the questions have to be asked to start with. Speaking as a manual owner, I can't recall the exact type of fluid required in a MkIV's autobox, but I'm sure it will be mentioned in this thread soon. Could need a full flush of the system. However - if there is a circuit which checks the temperature of the ATF fluid, and doesn't let the box shift gears until it's at a certain temperature, and this problem has started occuring in the cold weather, perhaps there is something up with this bit of the system? It's not calibrated or it's shafted or something? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Thanks a lot for the answers so far guys I REALLY appreciate being pointed in the right direction. My main concern is that a relacement gearbox would be ridiculously expensive, so any knowledge I can have to help sort the problem is great. I will check the level/quality this weekend and let you know what the story is. I have also been told that there is a sensor for the Gearbox oil getting to hot, so it could be linked to the temperature is some way. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by meandthecar I have also been told that there is a sensor for the Gearbox oil getting to hot, so it could be linked to the temperature is some way. Thanks again This one kicks as protection in after serious abuse when the fluid is very hot, it should limit the functions of the box so that the fluid can cool down, then normal box functions resume, I would doubt that your first gear problem is related to this function, as I would have expected to see problems in the warmer weather. As has been said before it sounds like a fluid problem. There are several solenoid valves in the box that can stick with the fluid is dirty and cold, causing temporary loss of box functions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRex Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 My BM has the same problem sometimes on cold mornings, try running the car for a few minutes in Neutral before starting off Cures it on mine Auto boxes don't like being cold Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 meandthecar, Can we clarify how long your car is "stuck in first gear"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 if i remember correctly, the low fluid temp sensor stops the use of 3rd and 4th when cold, and like terminator says this shouldnt last very long. does this happen if u let the car idle until it reaches opt temp and then drive it? the box fluid is warmed by the coolant in the radiator. if everything goes to plan (for me) i may have a used auto tranny for sale for at reasonable price if yr problem turns out to b something really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 No problem... 1) I start it up. 2) Then from Park to Reverse to get out of the driveway 3) Put it in Drive gear 4) Pull away - will not climb to 2nd gear (MANU has no effect i.e. cannot force it into 2nd - the MANU light is on, but it just does not do anything) 5) Drive about 30 seconds (v. slow in 1st) 6) Go to Neutral/Reverse/Park at junction 7) Go to Drive to pull out of junction 8) Sometimes still sticking to 1st (repeat step 6) 9) Usually will go to 2nd when throttle is eased off 10) Fine hereafter The whole think lasts a minute (at worst, so far). I have definitely noticed that if the car has only sat for an hour or less, the problem does not happen. Do you think this is a) temperature, b) transmission fluid movement (not all in sump after one hour), or c) something in the (gearbox?) ECU? BTW, the manual just says, "Toyota Automatic Transmission Fluid Type II" Any use? Howler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Eyefi, I have not tried this yet - I will later and let you know Howler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 That does not sound too serious at all, probably just a fluid thing. The box retains heat for ages so your fluid will be warm after an hour Check the level, if the level is OK check fluid condition especially if you have no records of previous changes. If the fluid is suspect, a partial drain and replace is not difficult and would probably speed up your cold start box changes. Type II fluid is now replaced by TypeIV, several main dealers told me to use Type III. Type II and IV are compatible, Type III is not, if you have Type III in the box you need a complete fluid change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandthecar Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Thanks Terminator Do you think I am doing any damage to the Gearbox with this niggling "cold-start" problem? Do I need to get on this really urgently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 I don’t think so, if the mechanic you use, knows his stuff then the fluid level will be OK. If he did not, then the box may not have been fully warm and he may have topped up to the hot mark when the cold mark should have been used. If he did not use the engine running method above then the level would be reading higher before he topped it up, so your level would still be low. Neither is a major problem just don’t do any record breaking standing ¼’s till you get it checked. You can only ask what fluid he used, if it was Type III, I don’t think it a major problem as long as it gets sorted in the near future. I think you get a sludge build up with mixed fluids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Pilot Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Meand the car, Welcome to the bbs m8..... Very good info and advise given to you here my friend. My 2 pence would tell you to go get the trany fluid flushed and fresh fluid(correct spec) put in, and to the correct levels. Run the car for a day using all gears, manual mode, reverse etc abit. So as to get the new fluid circulated proper. And hopefully you will be sorted:thumbs: Also while under there doing the fluid cx, have a look for a sensor(temp), see if it can be taken out, if it can, have a general look and a little clean etc before refitting it. I don't have an Auto so can't really tell what exactly to look for, can't think of more than 2 sets of wiring to the trany, so one may be it. This last bit I'm on about the sensor is a shot in the dark here, but as Terminator said, there is a temp sensing devise on the trany, if it's external and replacable 'I don't know'.. But it can't hurt to have a butchers while under the car having the fluid replaced! good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 check the link inside this link out for a full flush, if u have about 70k miles its about due for one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by meandthecar Thanks Terminator Do you think I am doing any damage to the Gearbox with this niggling "cold-start" problem? Do I need to get on this really urgently? Welcome. Not wanting to panic you, but you MUST get the level checked correctly, straight away. if it's low you could get a similar fault. It will do damage, VERY expensive damage, if it is low... It could be umpteen different things. I am in Shropshire, between Whitchurch and Shrewsbury, off the A49. I do a LOT of work on the MKIV Supras. If you want me to have a look I will do. I am also good pals with one of the best auto box men in the UK, if not Europe. If the diagnosis is an internal fault then I can get him to sort it for you. Don't delay though, you might be making long term expense if you carry on using it as it is. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Welcome. Not wanting to panic you, but you MUST get the level checked correctly, straight away. if it's low you could get a similar fault. It will do damage, VERY expensive damage, if it is low... Chris in your experience how long should it take the auto box to switch to full gear range from a cold start. The hand book only says that OD will not be avaiable when engine coolant temperature is low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cargill Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by Terminator This one kicks as protection in after serious abuse when the fluid is very hot, it should limit the functions of the box so that the fluid can cool down, then normal box functions resume I'm pretty certain that when this is 'active' it flashes one of the warning lights on the dash. In fact here is one I prepared earlier.... http://www.cargills.demon.co.uk/supra/BBSImages/ManualScan-3.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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