dandan Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 I wanted a flex in this downpipe and whatever happens I will get one in. It makes life a lot easier in some ways (an extra bit of freedom for alignment, allowance for expansion, isolating exhaust movement from the turbo/manifold) but also adds some complications...it's another thing to weld in, it takes up space, it means the downpipe needs more support to hold the midpipe in a sensible position etc etc. Plus they are not easy to find in 4" without being 12" longl! Now I have three different types I ordered lots to make sure I'd have something that worked. The lowest profile one I have found is a Dinex spiral flex. This is stainless, low profile, and has good flexibility. I will probably end up going with this as it has the smallest OD of all of the ones I have, giving the greatest clearance. The downpipe will be braced below the flex so it will never be under tension....all it has to do it take care of thermal expansion issues. This is justa mockup to allow to check clearances etc. (Ignore the tape and clamps!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Here's a couple of shots of the general layout and positioning in the engine bay.... And this is how I left it tonight...........wastegate piping to be tackled at the weekend! Edited August 26, 2009 by dandan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Nice work Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Nice work Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Very nicely done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Nice work Dan Very nicely done! Cheers guys - hopefully I can press on a bit faster now. Things seem to have dragged a bit lately but the delay on the exhaust side did give me a chance to work on other things like the cam covers, intake, plenum etc so I suppose I haven't really lost any time. I'm waiting on a couple of 1.75" stainless bends to arrive now; with any luck they'll be here before the weekend so I can get the wastegate parts arranged properly before welding up the downpipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Please excuse me if this has already been mentioned Dan, but who's cast manifold are you using? PHR, Induction Motorsports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Please excuse me if this has already been mentioned Dan, but who's cast manifold are you using? PHR, Induction Motorsports? The manifold is from a company called Treadstone in the US. Very Bourne Identity Myself and Paul Mac bought one back around Christmas time. I have no pics of it as it came but Paul has promised me he'll take some for me so I can post up what it looked like to start with.... ahem....hint hint.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 point taken, i'll try and get on it tommorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Good man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 as promised and for posterity here are the before pics of my unmolested manifold , the only difference with mine compared to Dans is i went for the 4 hole wastegate version, the Treadstone manifold is basically a re-manufactured version of the old Induction Motorsport manifold but with a much beefed up wastegate area to alleviate the over boost issues that the I.M manifolds suffered from, i believe Wez has the original I.M manifold with the wastegate area welded up to solve the overboost issues, Wez runs just shy of 600hp so these manifolds can deliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Correct, mine has the welded up and bored out wastegate area, I am sure they would support more but my turbo has no more to give Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Looks like a solid manifold, although the wastetgate port looks considerably smaller than the Arnout copy of the Induction Motorsports one. Does Arnout still supply these? Did you consider using it Dan? Edited August 28, 2009 by Miguel Added picture (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Not sure if there are any Arnout units left, this is my Arnout manifold next to my Induction Motorsport manifold, Arnout`s is on the left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Looks like a solid manifold, although the wastetgate port looks considerably smaller than the Arnout copy of the Induction Motorsports one. Does Arnout still supply these? i think the beauty of the Treadstone copy with the amount of metal is you can basically machine whatever size you want, a 50mm wastegate port would be quite easy, I enquired about a year ago with Arnout and the answer was a most definate no, which is a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) i think the beauty of the Treadstone copy with the amount of metal is you can basically machine whatever size you want, a 50mm wastegate port would be quite easy, I enquired about a year ago with Arnout and the answer was a most definate no, which is a shame The Bourne Identity ones are also a fair bit cheaper. Arnout has them up on his shop for 645 Euros? Compared to $299 from Treadstone. Wished I held on to one of the ten I had off him all those years ago. Still, as you say, it looks like there's a fair bit of meat there to machine. All looking mighty fine Dan Edited August 29, 2009 by Miguel Snooozing (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) as promised and for posterity here are the before pics of my unmolested manifold , the only difference with mine compared to Dans is i went for the 4 hole wastegate version, the Treadstone manifold is basically a re-manufactured version of the old Induction Motorsport manifold but with a much beefed up wastegate area to alleviate the over boost issues that the I.M manifolds suffered from, i believe Wez has the original I.M manifold with the wastegate area welded up to solve the overboost issues, Wez runs just shy of 600hp so these manifolds can deliver Thanks Paul I'll probably save those and load them up in Photobucket so they're embedded. Is that ok with you? Looks like a solid manifold, although the wastetgate port looks considerably smaller than the Arnout copy of the Induction Motorsports one. Does Arnout still supply these? Did you consider using it Dan? http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e86/migles/railandmani001.jpg Not sure if there are any Arnout units left, this is my Arnout manifold next to my Induction Motorsport manifold, Arnout`s is on the left http://www.zen85016.zen.co.uk/gallery/supraodds2/IMG_8824.JPG i think the beauty of the Treadstone copy with the amount of metal is you can basically machine whatever size you want, a 50mm wastegate port would be quite easy, I enquired about a year ago with Arnout and the answer was a most definate no, which is a shame The Bourne Identity ones are also a fair bit cheaper. Arnout has them up on his shop for 645 Euros? Compared to $299 from Treadstone. Wished I held on to one of the ten I had off him all those years ago. Still, as you say, it looks like there's a fair bit of meat there to machine. All looking mighty fine Dan I'll get some pics of the manifold up tomorrow - some to compare to Paul's original one and some to show the wastegate area and gasket face (as promised Paul). I thought about an Arnout one and a PHR but didn't really see the point in the extra expense. The wastegate area on the Arnout one certainly looks "healthy", I can't see anyone getting overboost issues there. Now you mention it Mig....I remember when you bought all those manifolds; I almost but one but it was touch and go if I'd actually be keeping my car so I passed it by at the time. These Bourne Identity ones come with a lifetime guarantee, there is LOADS of meat in the wastegate area to do with as you please and I was always going to open up the internals anyway so the more I have to work with the better. Taking a rough guess I have probably removed enough cast iron to make the shape of something close to the volume of an apple.....that's a fair bit. I could have put it in a beaker and measure how much it actually is but visualizing it is probably easier! I might do that tomorrow if I get time. If somebody was thinking of buying a manifold "off the shelf" and planning not to modify it then an Arnout version probably makes sense. That doesn't apply to me though as I tend to modify everything to make it suit If somebody was to buy one of these and didn't fancy working on it themselves it wouldn't be a massive expense to pay someone to sort it and get 80% or so towards a very well flowing manifold (with no overboost issues) with a rebore of the wastegate area and some quick porting/radiussing in the tansition area by someone like a cylinder head modifier. Those two things might cost £150 or so I suppose if you find the right people. That would still work out fairly cheap. Edited August 30, 2009 by dandan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) I was waiting for some more 1.75" piping to arrive ready to start this job but that hasn't arrived. I decided to make a start with what I had and see if I could make up some time given the slight delay with the downpipe parts. I think I can get a very compact well flowing route sorted with the parts I have. To be sure, I need to get the downpipe flex welded in and weld up the wastegate feed pipe - once those are sorted I can press on safe in the knowledge that everything won't move on me when it's welded and throw all my alignment out. This gives you an idea of the re-entry angle I'm looking for back into the downpipe... I also had another 4" flex arrive - I'll see how this one looks in position and what kind of clearance it gives. This one was my original choice but it does need more room. Edited August 30, 2009 by dandan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Where did you get the 4" flex from Dan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Baffles out and old rivet locations drilled and tapped Dash 10 "weld ons" in position Edited August 31, 2009 by dandan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Where did you get the 4" flex from Dan? I spent ages trying to find a braided type one in the UK and had no luck getting anything short. Most 4" stuff seems to come in at around 12" long. (Hayward and Scott can supply one that long for something lke £150). I found a 4" long one (just posted the pic) and an 8" long one (not arrived yet) via the US Ebay but neither actually came from the US and there were "language barriers" to overcome with the sellers. The slim line one I have positioned in the downpipe now is a Dinex part which is basically a stainless steel truck flex....that did come from the UK and I'm 99% sure that's the option I'll try first. You might find one like that on Ebay but it's not something that would appear every time I searched. It happened to pop up one day when I was searching so I bought it there and then. Edit: I'm not sure if these are stainless but if they are you may be able to make one of these work with a bit of angle grinder action! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-Actros-Atego-New-Genuine-Exhaust-Flex-Pipe_W0QQitemZ170345352954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM?hash=item27a95fcefa&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-Heavy-Atego-New-Genuine-Exhaust-Flex-Pipe_W0QQitemZ180369677643QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM?hash=item29fededd4b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Edited September 27, 2010 by dandan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Excellent, the fitting on my 4" BL downpipe is crap, i had a shop cut and shut it, also fitted in a gearbox mount but that snapped when on track, i think a 4" flex is whats needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) I fitted my new auxillary belt tensioner and that's tidied up the front of the engine nicely. The old pulley seemed to be making a bit of a noise and once I'd removed it I could see that the pulley bearing did have some play in it.....the new one is stiff by comparison. I also sorted out the turbo oil drain. I bought all this with dash 10 sized hose before I knew which turbo I'd be using so played it safe and went fairly big with dash 10. That will give me the option of running a journal bearing turbo sometime in the future as well if needed. A little note to those of you who will be running a 6765 in the future (with its 3" compressor outlet)....you may have some issues with clearance on your dash 10 drain. I used some hardpiping to get down and past the compressor housing - this helps clear the silicon connector onto the turbo and also keeps the flexible drain hose away from the wastegate and manifold heat. Lastly I checked what temperature my TRD stat actually started to open at....about 74-75 degrees for anyone who is interested. Edited August 30, 2009 by dandan (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 The slim line one I have positioned in the downpipe now is a Dinex part which is basically a stainless steel truck flex....that did come from the UK. Where from Dan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dan i think your wastegate entry back into the main system is a text book example of how it should be done, nice to see your putting some thought and research into this build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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