Advice please - being knocked me thinks

[Tourniquet]

As the title says I could do with some advice on where I stand. I had a bottom end rebuild done at Kream Developments a few months ago and now it has gone again. After opening it up and having a look they're saying that a rod has bent and had destroyed everything inside including the bearings which they replaced in the original build. All I did was run it in for 500 miles then have Ryan G tweak it as it was running lean and on about the 5th run he picked up the noise in his ear piece that turned out to be death of it. What is the point of having a 500bhp + car if the f***ing things breaks every time I put my foot down !!!

 

Anyway, they say it's down to me and not them as they said they didn't touch the rods at all so I'll have to fork out another 1500-2k whatever the cost will be even though I've only done 700 miles on the new engine ! A friend says he's talking bollocks to get out of redoing it as he's never ever known a rod to bend or break in a Supra and if it was to I'd need to be clearing 700bhp which I am not. Kream have also said the rod has bent due to over boosting which it also is not.

 

Am I right to expect them to fix this or am I just stuck with a piece of shit car to let rott on the drive ? It's taking me another 3 months - 6 in total to finish off paying for the 1st build so I am in no state to pay for another even if I wanted to. I've been told to take them to small claims if need be but thought I'd bend a few ears from the experts first and see what the general oppinion is.

 

Any help much appreciated guys as I am very ******* annoyed

[supra matt]

Hi mate sorry to read this . You say you had a full rebuild by them? if so they must of taken the rods out ! if its only done 500 miles and gone pop it is there problem unless you signed a disclaimer ! is it a big company (well known )?

 

To much boost would not bend a rod ever You would be popping off boost hoses be for you bent a rod . Sounds like there's guy don't no what there talking about !!!! and i would not let them near Lego box let alone my engine to build .

[dude]

Well I have seen a supra with 2 rods that were s shaped but that was using nitrous at too low an rpm, I ran stock rods and ARP bolts at 900 odd hp and 7500 rpm, they should be fine.

Saying that I doubt any one would offer much of a warranty on a car running a single turbo, if it was stock then yes.

On the other hand obviously they should be fair about it and the fact you had only done 700 miles suggests you should have been taking it easy.

why dont you ask Kranz to get the oil tested for you and see what he comes up with.

[Gaz6002]

Get a second opinion from a Supra specialist on here, but I don't think you'll be entitled to remuneration unless they offered a warranty.

[dude]

We can do a report on it if you want but I dont think any court would side with you when they found out how powerful your car is.

[Tourniquet]

We can do a report on it if you want but I dont think any court would side with you when they found out how powerful your car is.

 

Who do you mean by 'we' ? Are you part of a legal something or other ?

 

Also why would it make any difference what power the car is running ? It's not much for a single and surely a company should stand by their work if i've done relatively naff all mileage before it died. It did 700 miles under 3,000 rpm and had about 5 3rd gear pulls when being tweaked and that was it. Oh and the oil was changed after the 500 mile run in. I found I couldn't boost due to running lean because the digits on the AFR were off so it wasn't until the tweaking was done that I could.

 

I didn't sign a disclaimer either.

[j_jza80]

Who do you mean by 'we' ? Are you part of a legal something or other ?

 

Also why would it make any difference what power the car is running ? It's not much for a single and surely a company should stand by their work if i've done relatively naff all mileage before it died. It did 700 miles under 3,000 rpm and had about 5 3rd gear pulls when being tweaked and that was it. Oh and the oil was changed after the 500 mile run in. I found I couldn't boost due to running lean because the digits on the AFR were off so it wasn't until the tweaking was done that I could.

 

I didn't sign a disclaimer either.

 

I think Dude meant AFR can do an inspection report for you.

 

Not much for a single it may be, but the UK legal system probably doesn't grasp the potential of the 2JZ, and would probably deem that it was the engine tuning that was to blame.

[absz]

what was the reason for the first rebuild ? i have bent 2 rods through det before.

[Tourniquet]

The seal behind the fan gushed out oil and I didn't turn the engine off quick enough basically. Had a nice blast in it during the evening and later on while poodling at 30 I noticed my oil pressure was non existent and thus the nightmare began.

[Tourniquet]

One thing he wants to do is send off the crank to be remachined n balanced. Is this rubbish or nessecary ? Surely it's either scored or not and not something you do just to b safe

[Tricky-Ricky]

Sorry to here this, can you first explain what the maximum RPM and boost that you have attained since the rebuild? and also what the AFR was during the period that you said you could not give it full boost? and also after it was sorted.

 

Sorry about the questions, but it has a bearing on how you can go about trying to resolve this.

 

Did the company know that it was a rebuild for a single turbo Supra, and did they have any idea of the proposed BHP?

 

IMO it should not have happened, if the rebuild had been done correctly, but if the engine was run at high boost whilst AFRs where out then you have problems.

 

I also need to ask about the way the rebuild was carried out, IE you say the reason was because the FMS failed, and the result was no oil pressure, so the big end, mains and most other bearing surfaces would have almost certainly been scored/damaged, so if they did not remove the rods, then its there fault, same goes if they didn't remove and check most other bearing surfaces, also oil pump should have been changed, and the entire engine and oil ways should have been flushed/cleaned.

[JamieP]

What is the point of having a 500bhp + car if the f***ing things breaks every time I put my foot down !!!

 

Bung a good secondhand engine in it and enjoy, stock engines seem to just keep going.

[Guest Econ]

Hi everyone

 

I am a friend of Tourniquet and own a skyline so know a little about these sort of engines. I went down to Kream with Turniquet today and had a look at the block. The crank is scored and the rod is bent but by no more than an mm or 2 tops but there is a bend. Also slight scoring of the valves but as yet the head is still in one bit so hard to tell if the damage has gone all way up.

 

It's the same old story with this guy. Engine builders blame the mapper etc but I can't see how the map was anything to do with it as soon as this thing hit boost the rod bends and the bearing disintegrates. I mean there is no traces of a bearing at all on the No.3 channel at all its all in bits in the bottom of the sump.

 

I am thinking that the bearing could be the underlying cause of the problem but Kream are saying that if there was anything wrong with the bearing it would have had problems the minute it was turned over never mind under boost. I think the bearing had under lying issues until the engine was put under full engine load at 1.5 bar.

 

So my question is am I right or talking sh*t?

 

From what I understand the car was at 1.5 bar running about 570BHP and the bottom ends on supra’s are good for 700BHP so it should be fine.

 

Kream’s opinion is the problem was caused by to much boost pressure. I find that hard to believe after all the work that has been done to this car.

[Tourniquet]

Any thoughts on that ?

[Tricky-Ricky]

I can't really comment any more without having the answers to some of my previous questions,

So it was run at 1,5 bar and making 570BHP, and i presume correctly mapped at this point? but as i said where the engine builders aware of this, and the main point being just how well was the engine examined and cleaned and checked for trueness and dimensions of bearing surfaces, no matter how good the engine builders are, if certain things are overlooked or neglected, then you might as well get some cowboy back street garage to build it.

[Chris Wilson]

Big power engines are risky. I spent 12k on a new engine in the eighties and it blew first time on the dyno. Tough, but it's something that can happen when you mod things. If you aren't happy with the builder use someone else next time. If another blow up worries you leave the thing standard. Once you mod an engine to that extent warranties go out of the window.

[Tourniquet]

Even with regards to doing less than a mile on boost ?

 

That seems bo**ox to me mate, why would people ever bother if this was the case and how would tuning companies exist ?!?

 

Tricky all your questions were answered earlier in the thread matey before Econ posted. All he's asking is would it be likely a bearing went taking everything with it or would it have been detected on start up or even by turning them round by hand in the block before reassembly ?

[Tricky-Ricky]

Even with regards to doing less than a mile on boost ?

 

That seems bo**ox to me mate, why would people ever bother if this was the case and how would tuning companies exist ?!?

 

Tricky all your questions were answered earlier in the thread matey before Econ posted. All he's asking is would it be likely a bearing went taking everything with it or would it have been detected on start up or even by turning them round by hand in the block before reassembly ?

 

Sorry but there are quite a few unanswered questions IMO.

 

But in answer yes a bearing could pick up/fail for a whole host of different reasons, but i would very much doubt if you could tell from hand turning or on start up, unless there was a BIG problem like wrong size, no oil etc.

[dude]

Even with regards to doing less than a mile on boost ?

 

That seems bo**ox to me mate, why would people ever bother if this was the case and how would tuning companies exist ?!?

 

Tricky all your questions were answered earlier in the thread matey before Econ posted. All he's asking is would it be likely a bearing went taking everything with it or would it have been detected on start up or even by turning them round by hand in the block before reassembly ?

 

 

Thats the problem dude, how many people would go back to the engine builder and say 'well mate I ragged the arse off it from the top of the road and its only done 700 miles all on the redline!!!!'

Exactly none!!! Every one will have run it in perfectly!!. Do you see my point?? Of course if he keeps building engines that blow up then sooner or later he will go out of business.

 

Like CW says he spent 12K on a motor for it to blow up first time on the dyno, I put an engine together on my workshop floor made from the best bits of 3 knackered engines the night before RotoStock drove the car to Avon park and ran 10's all day, that bottom end stayed in the car regularly running 10's and 2.5 bar with no issues. Go figure!!!