Injector output reading disappears and car dies after a second

[guye_d]

Hey Guys,

 

Really need your help on this one.

 

My car is a 98 vvti TT and I have just completed an engine refresh and single build.

 

For the engine refresh I have changed:

Oil Pump

Water Pump

Crank Gear

Crank Pulley

HG & pretty much everything in the gasket set

Head Bolts

Timing and Drive Belt

Tensioner

and a few other things which slip me

 

Single Build:

Bootlogic T61

Sard 650cc Drop In injectors

Tial WG

Emanage Ultimate

Emanage Injector Adaptor

Zeitronix Wideband/Datalogger

Coolingmist Methanol injection

PROBLEM

I am trying to get the car started however engine cranks, idles roughly for a second and cuts off. This is both with the emanage ultimate connected and disconnected. Looking at a log of the the "injector output" on the emanage support tool, there is an initial reading which disappears once the car appears to begin to idle.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Dudley

[Alex]

Are you using the stock FPR?

 

If you are ignore 90% of my comments in the PM - other than the fact the stock ECU stands no hope with the EMU disconnected.

 

I'd attach some screen shot of your map to aide diagnosis.

The idle cells should be in the -33% range.

[guye_d]

Hey Alex, yes I'm using the stock FPR.

 

I have put in the stock and new injector sizes into the I/J settings, shouldn't this automatically compensate for idle?

 

Dudley

[chrispot]

could it be fuel pump ecu, other cars i have worked on give a feed to fuel pump on cranking when engine starts ecu detects that its running and sends a feed to fuel pump.

what you could also try is connect jumper wire in the dianostics port to run pump ( to check pump etc) hope this is helpful, regards chris.

[guye_d]

thanks chris; will get on it in a while and let you guys know

[Ian C]

I assume you've turned off the immobiliser?

[guye_d]

Hey Ian, pardon my lack of knowledge here, how would I know if the car has one in the first place farless for turning it off?

 

I assume you've turned off the immobiliser?

[Ian C]

It's part of the alarm system, although I'm not sure about the stock Supra security, almost everyone has a 3rd party alarm system with immobiliser installed. I mention this because I've seen a lot of people caught out while trying to diagnose a starting or electrical problem and forgetting that the electrics are mostly offline for a reason - the car thinks you're trying to steal it

 

-Ian

[guye_d]

Thanks; thought you were refering to one which came on the supra from factory. We have disconnected the aftermarket alarm completely.

 

We've jumped E1 and Tc on the diagnostic port under the hood and getting a code of 14 based on the engine check light flashes. I have yet to find a chart for the vvt-i though. Any idea on where I could find this and/or what code 14 would mean?

 

Just so we are in one vein, I have found the ODBII port after digging through a few wires under the panel.

 

Thanks

[Ian C]

Code 14 - no IGF signal to ECU for 4 to 7 consecutive IGT signals.

 

IGT is an ignition spark event sent from the ECU, and IGF is the return from the igniter to tell the ECU it worked (and also for measuring RPMs in some cases). So your ignition system isn't sparking. Check the igniter (swap out a known good unit if possible, it's a two minute job), check you're getting sparks.

 

Did you have the car working after disconnecting the alarm system?

 

-Ian

[guye_d]

No Ian,

 

I have just dropped back in the engine after doing the engine refresh and single install.

 

The same thing is happening with the alarm connected and disconnected.

[Ian C]

OK you might have a spark problem then. If the engine is just stopping rather than missing it won't be coils or coil pack connectors. Try swapping out the igniter. Also check you are getting fuel flow by bridging +B and FP in the diag port - you should hear the fuel system fire up (it's surprisingly loud). Try starting the car with that bridge in place.

 

-Ian

[StuartW]

I too have this exact problem! Its defo loss of spark, like an intermittent bad connection. Defo not fuel as have Pressure reading. I guess a Voltage Pinout test is needed on the ECU?

 

I have pulled,pushed rattled,wobbled and twiddled every part of the cars elecs,

Is there no quick fix run a live or earth into diagnostics port to bypass it?

 

This is a real PITA now.

 

Can anyone short cut me to the relavent port (s) to test

 

Shown here http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=72803

 

I have removed the turbo timer and RLTC from the equation too...Immobiliser is pretty major and still wired in.

 

I am running AEM so i will have a look and plug the laptop in tomorrow, it has been a while, any clues apart from TPS reading, on what i should check?

Edited July 26, 2009 by StuartW (see edit history)

[guye_d]

Guys, problem has been sorted, one of the leads wasn't in properly and 2 others had to be swapped.

 

Idling now; onto the next problem, there is no response to changes in Injector and/or airflow map values.

 

Also, cuts off anytime any degree of throttle is applied

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

[StuartW]

My fault is fixed...Was loosing the earth to the AEM ECU, still dont know where the bad connection was but just doubled up on it with a nice big earth or 3

[Tricky-Ricky]

Guys, problem has been sorted, one of the leads wasn't in properly and 2 others had to be swapped.

 

Idling now; onto the next problem, there is no response to changes in Injector and/or airflow map values.

 

Also, cuts off anytime any degree of throttle is applied

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

You have set up the throttle position correctly on the EMU? could be that, the lack of change with the map could be down to you have the wiring reversed.

[guye_d]

You have set up the throttle position correctly on the EMU? could be that, the lack of change with the map could be down to you have the wiring reversed.

 

Yeah Ricky, the TP has been setup. Bought a vehicle specific harness .... so it was pretty much just plug and play; will go back over the wires to make sure everything is in order.

 

Is there anything I need to set under the unit menu? Injector Adjustment ... Duration or Duty Cycle etc.

 

Also ... anyone have any clue of what the VVTi 440cc lag time is?

 

Thanks

 

Dudley

[Tricky-Ricky]

Yeah Ricky, the TP has been setup. Bought a vehicle specific harness .... so it was pretty much just plug and play; will go back over the wires to make sure everything is in order.

 

Is there anything I need to set under the unit menu? Injector Adjustment ... Duration or Duty Cycle etc.

 

Also ... anyone have any clue of what the VVTi 440cc lag time is?

 

Thanks

 

Dudley

 

 

 

My EMU is set at 0.08 for the std 440cc and 0.06 for the denso 540cc but IMO the EMU is a bit sketchy over lag times so you will need to experiment.

Some use 0.0 in lag times, and find it works but others not.

 

However this will not normally effect the no control via the maps problem,

what have you got the maps scaled by? boost, TPS etc?

and are you using DC or duration, you won't see any big changes on idle as the std ECU will just keep pulling things back to stoic, its only when you're out of closed loop that you will see much change, unless you know how to fool the ECU.