N/A BPU completed

[GMan]

EDIT AND DISCLAIMER: If you are reading this and you own a TT Stop and Read this first!

Most likely you should just go to another thread, but if you want to read on than

1) I know the money would be better spent on a tt

2) I know I won't get alot of HP

3) I Know you can lose midrange power, I am an automotive engineer. if you say an N/A engine needs back pressure to make power I will publicly embarrass you, It's about pulse timing, scavenging and resonance. No engine "needs" backpressure but since it is unavoidable their exhaust systems were designed with the 3 above elements in mind at what the engineers calculated would be the backpressure level the engine would operate at. please look it up and save me the trouble

4) I do not have nor ever will have a before and after dyno sheet and I don't care, the car looks/feels/sounds and accelerates better now and if a simple subjective evaluation is not good enough for you than stop reading now.

5)The acronym BPU(Basic Performance upgrade) Meaning simple breathing mods to an engine, was NOT developed for the Supra TT and has been around since the 60's it is Not exclusive to you! It's not a trademark so just deal with it.

6)for the NA owners, if you want big power: go turbo, you will not be threatening any stock TT's at this level.

 

So if you want to make your na more fun without spending a mint, read on

 

 

Hey all, I just wanted to shed some light on whats doable with the NA supra before going all out na-t or tt swap. I want mine to remain NA for reliability reasons as it's my daily driver. I already have a fast 400+bhp temperamental Skyline.

 

Unfortunately My memory card is corrupted so all the pictures i took during the install are gone, I'll post some up tomorrow of the completed work.

 

I did this all on a very small budget about $800 U.S. dollars all in and I will provide links to where I bought all my parts from, I'm sure some of the vendors will ship international if you ask, but access to the us military postal system in Germany plus my exemption from VAT helped keep prices reasonable.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Lbm (see edit history)

[j1mb0b1]

..

Edited July 17, 2009 by j1mb0b1 (see edit history)

[Dave17]

What? - Not very much

[benkei]

He's BPU'd his n/a Supra, but all the pics he took have been lost due to a corrupted memory card. Not that hard to follow is it?

[JustGav]

Hey all, I just wanted to shed some light on whats doable with the NA supra before going all out na-t or tt swap. I want mine to remain NA for reliability reasons as it's my daily driver. I already have a fast 400+bhp temperamental Skyline.

 

Unfortunately My memory card is corrupted so all the pictures i took during the install are gone, I'll post some up tomorrow of the completed work.

 

I did this all on a very small budget about $800 U.S. dollars all in and I will provide links to where I bought all my parts from, I'm sure some of the vendors will ship international if you ask, but access to the us military postal system in Germany plus my exemption from VAT helped keep prices reasonable.

 

So, do you actually have anything to post up other than this??

[GMan]

The first thing I did was ad an Injen cold air intake from a Lexus sc300

Mine is blue but the same

I bought it for $264 from horsepowerfreaks.com

Injen Intake on HPF

It's quite pricey for the benifit, but it looks ans sounds miles better than the lumpy plastic intake tube with it's weird and restrictive resonance chambers, This is designed for a car with a MAF, mine worked with the intake temperature housing for the HKS power intake that was on the car when i bought it. Someonw will have to verify it will work with stock.

 

The car seemed more responsive but not really more powerful after the instal but the induction sound is great!

[GMan]

So, do you actually have anything to post up other than this??

 

Working on it relax

[DSK]

I take it for an N/A, by BPU you are referring to the usual simple modifications right?

[JustGav]

Working on it relax

 

Do you have pre and post dyno of the work?

[Scooter]

Do you think may be we can let a guy who wants to go to the effort to explain how he has modified his NA so that others can follow to actually do that?

 

Whilst we can endlessly poke at errors or that its all been done before or NA's aren't worth the bother etc etc etc, I for one would rather see what someone has done and again, has taken the effort to post up, than read all the other 'comments' made within 10-15 mins of starting the thread.

[GMan]

Next up was The OBX-R exhaust headers. not bad for $275

I got them from Amazon.com

OBX header on amazon

 

They are designed for a LHD Supra so I had to flatten a small section on the outermost 3 to 1 collector by the lambda bung. not hard at all just heat it until it glows and give it a few taps with a flat hammer. Not you will have to change the o2 sensors from toyota stye to universal 1 wire sensors, I got them for a total of 29 pounds from a great seller on ebay.uk

O2 on ebay

I Cannot recomend this seller more!

[gavin.starr]

Do you think may be we can let a guy who wants to go to the effort to explain how he has modified his NA so that others can follow to actually do that?

 

Whilst we can endlessly poke at errors or that its all been done before or NA's aren't worth the bother etc etc etc, I for one would rather see what someone has done and again, has taken the effort to post up, than read all the other 'comments' made within 10-15 mins of starting the thread.

 

[GMan]

Guys, I'll put some Dyno sheets up sometime but It just isn't cost effective to put my daily driver on a dyno when I am not making any ECU changes. Look we have all heard all of the cons of trying to enhance an na, but if you look at my fist post you will see why i am doing this, I'll be asking the mods to clean up any posts that do not contribute to the thread.

 

Thanks Scooter, I couldn't say it any better, The turbo guys just can't seem to get it in their heads that not all of us supra owners are after 1000 bhp

[marc_p]

Next up was The OBX-R exhaust headers. not bad for $275

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/gman-r33/Supra/header1.jpghttp://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/gman-r33/Supra/header3.jpg

I got them from Amazon.com

OBX header on amazon

 

They are designed for a LHD Supra so I had to flatten a small section on the outermost 3 to 1 collector by the lambda bung. not hard at all just heat it until it glows and give it a few taps with a flat hammer. Not you will have to change the o2 sensors from toyota stye to universal 1 wire sensors, I got them for a total of 29 pounds from a great seller on ebay.uk

O2 on ebay

I Cannot recomend this seller more!

 

I bet that made it LOUD:d

[JustGav]

Guys, I'll put some Dyno sheets up sometime but It just isn't cost effective to put my daily driver on a dyno when I am not making any ECU changes. Look we have all heard all of the cons of trying to enhance an na, but if you look at my fist post you will see why i am doing this, I'll be asking the mods to clean up any posts that do not contribute to the thread.

 

Thanks Scooter, I couldn't say it any better, The turbo guys just can't seem to get it in their heads that not all of us supra owners are after 1000 bhp

 

Not at all. I have an NA as well as a single. If you can provide quantified proof as well as a nice step by step, I'd be happy to trim this thread. Do you want me to clean it up and move it to tech?

[GMan]

Next up was a full OBX-R exhaust for a TT supra, the good nes is that it fit perfectly up to the obx header or the stock manifold/1st cat, this means that any tt full exhaust system will bolt up to an na

Here is the 3 piece system,

i got it on ebay for $260 us dollars!!!!!!!!

OBX-R on ebay

Shipping was $75 for me and I think the seller will ship international for twice that, Still it's a steal.

[Homer]

Interested in before and after dyno plots (on same dyno of course). From what's been tried here before there's almost nothing to gain from modifying the NA engine unless you go for something extreme. 238bhp at the flywheel I think is the record at a reputable dyno, and that car had a LOT spent on it.

[GMan]

I bet that made it LOUD:d

 

OMG is it loud, it puts my skyline to shame, I am actually considering, putting the midpipe with the second cat back in.

It has a nice deep idle but anything more than light throttle really opens up the pipes.

 

As far as power goes, it feels like it lost some torque at low throttle positions, but it really shines at WOT, the acceleration is noticeably improved, Stock it would struggle past 160 kph (100mph), It hit 180k and was well in the black (mine is a delimited j spec with the speedometer still reading in kph) and still pulling hard when i had to let off for traffic.

 

I will be heading to Frankfurt on Friday for my usual weekend commute and there is a nice stretch of unlimited autobahn on the way. so far i have never been able to exceed 224 kph(reading fro my GPS) from start to finish of the 4 km section i measured fo top speed testing of my skyline, wew will se what the supra can do then

[Scooter]

Whilst the ultimate total peak power may not be altered is that the only thing that counts?

 

if the throttle response is improved and it seems more lively throughout the rev range, is this meaning its at higher hp for a given rpm and that this few hp at all revs makes for a quicker car?

[GMan]

Well you won't be getting a before sheet anytime soon unless i can find someone with a totally stock na auto to head up with me that day and hope the car to car difference is not too extreme because there is NO WAY I am pulling all of this off!

 

My hands look like I've been to a bare knuckle brawl and I have 2 nice burns where my wrench slipped of the bolt while i was adjusting timing and my hand and forearm hit the header.

 

All I can give is an impartial account via the unreliable but dyno, the supra won't be scaring my skyline but it is definitively more fun to drive,

[martini]

I for one am very interested in this thread and would like to see it made tech. Thank you for sharing - I look forward to reading more

[Homer]

I for one am very interested in this thread and would like to see it made tech.

 

It will never make tech unless it's a technical comparison This is not, sadly.

 

We've seen these mods done time and again over the years. It will gain a few HP at peak at the expense of low/mid range torque. That's about it really.

 

NA's are not for modding if you want any real performance. The TT engine swap is the only one that'll offer it. 400 bhp at £1500 cost. NA mods might get to 240bhp with the same money spent. It's a no brainier if you're after half decent power.

[JustGav]

It will never make tech unless it's a technical comparison This is not, sadly.

 

Precisely why I asked for a pre/post dyno otherwise it subjective.

 

Scooter, a dyno is also useful to see how the overall power curve has changed.

[GMan]

Finally, the last thing i did was adjust the timing, here in Germany I run my cars on 98 ron (100 is available but I get 98 for $0.70 US dollars a liter on base so i can live with it) the non turbo supra with a 10 to 1 compression ratio runs a base timing of 10 deg BTDC looking at some of the past data collected by a friend of mine who does work on some older bmw inline 6's he said the switch from 87 ron the non turbo can run on to 98 could theoretically lead to a +10deg advance at the point of max timing gain safely. I added approximately 2.5 dec of static base timing before the idle started to speed up. The difference was noticeable, engine response improved dramatically. Power was up enough for me to tell. He suggested I add 4 more degrees but I'll save that for a dyno day with some det-cans handy.

 

If anyone has access to the timing curve of a 2jzge with distributor, you will be my personal hero,

It will look like this

Base 10 deg

Full mechanical advance ?? deg @ ???? rpm

Electrical/Vacuum or whatever advance ?? deg from ????rpm to ????rpm

Edited July 15, 2009 by GMan (see edit history)

[GMan]

Guys, as I stated in my first post, i am not really interested in peak numbers, high hp, or anything like that, I have a car for that already, I am looking for a few ways to make my daily driver look and sound a bit better, and add a bit of acceleration. In 2005 I saw a Lexus is300 dyno at 223 hp at the wheels with basically bolt ons through an auto tranny, At that point I was a full turbo snob and didn't care about "that pitiful NA" and my exact words were to the effect of

"NA is like having infinite turbo lag, you should stop wasting money on that crap and go turbo" The guy who was about 5 or 6 years older than me took it in stride and said

"I've been down that road, Now I just want something fun to drive that I don't have to worry about every time I put my foot down, or spends more time in the garage than on the road."

I just shrugged and waited to get my Skyline on the Dyno, (332 WHP at the time)

Here I am almost 5 years later

Engine #3 on the skyline (1st was a wrecked head, just bought another full engine, 2nd burnt 2 pistons, so rebuilt it with full forged internals)

Turbo #5

Every 4-6 months something seems to go wrong requiring the car go off the road while I wait for a new part (Thermostat at the moment) Usually right before a big meet or track day!

 

Now I'm thinking "I just want something fun to drive that I don't have to worry about every time I put my foot down, or spends more time in the garage than on the road." =NA BPU for me

 

I'm trying to find that guy and apologize for being such an arrogant prick, Plus I want to know what else he did to get that BHP

Edited July 15, 2009 by GMan (see edit history)