j_jza80 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 The FN2? You sure? The EK9 is definately a diver's car, Maybe the EP3, but the new Type-R is fat, heavy, and has cheap suspension! Too many gadgets and add ons. The current Type R is far from a big, heavy slouch. That's just the media blowing its very slight dynamic disadvantage out of all proportion. I like Type Rs, excellent cars in a very different way to the Supra. They are hard work to drive properly, but are rewarding with it. Plus, the EP gives lovely lift off oversteer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) The current Type R is far from a big, heavy slouch. That's just the media blowing its very slight dynamic disadvantage out of all proportion. Sorry but no... EP3: Length 4140 mm Width 1980 mm Height 1440 mm Weight 1204 kg FN2: Length 4270 mm Width 2046 mm Height 1445 mm Weight 1357 kg FN2 is longer, wider, taller and heavier... EP3: Engine Size 1998 cc Cylinders 4 0-60 mph 6.4 s Power Output 197 bhp Valves 16 Torque 196 Nm 145 lb-ft Top Speed 146 mph FN2: Engine Size 1998 cc Cylinders 4 0-60 mph 6.4 s Power Output 198 bhp Valves 16 Torque 193 Nm 142 lb-ft Top Speed 146 mph EP3 appears to have a tiny amount of torque more than the FN2, but the FN2 have 1bhp more, yet their performance figures are the same? Running costs... EP3: MPG 31 Insurance Group 17 Euro Emissions Standard III CO2 Emissions 212 g/km FN2 MPG 31 Insurance Group 17 Euro Emissions Standard IV CO2 Emissions 215 g/km All the same, except the FN2 has slightly higher emissions. Practicality... EP3 Wheelbase 2575 mm Luggage Capacity 315 L Fuel Capacity 50 L Turning Circle 11 m FN2 Wheelbase 2620 mm Luggage Capacity 485 L Fuel Capacity 50 L Turning Circle 11 m So the FN2 DOES have a wider wheel base, which would aid handling, BUT... It holds more luggage, suggesting it's not race based like the Type-R originally was, but more family hatch back based. How can anyone insist that a bigger, heavier, clumsier car, with the same engine as it's smaller, lighter, more race-bred brother can be faster?! As I said, by no means is it a bad car, but it's falling further and further away from being a sporty car. The engine is pretty much the same as the old model! They haven't increased size or power at all. The S2000 has the k20, and that gets 240bhp! All the other hot hatches on the market are out perfoming the FN2, they could at least have gave it 220bhp like the Japanese model? Honda even changed the double wishbone suspension at the rear for a torsion beam! Not to aid the car at all, but to save money on production costs. The Type-R GT (top spec) includes, dual zone climate control (Left:right independent), rain sensing windscreen wipers, refrigerated glove box, automatic headlights with dusk sensor, front fog lights, power folding door mirrors and cruise control. Do you really NEED rain sensing window wipers on a TypeR? Dual zone climate control? Automatic headlights FFS?! And we all know how cruise control makes you feel like part of the car... This isn't a drivers car at all, it does everything for you!! If you're going to have a Type-R, get an EK9! Simple, and effective! Not chav-branded either, it's an enthusiast model, insurance companies know this too! Edited July 8, 2009 by benkei (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopgunTT Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 My insurance runs out again in 2 weeks, Sadly sky still don't do agreed value for new customers even though they are the club insurer. However there is another supra club and their club insurer does do agreed value ( Livingstones ) so i will be contacting them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 They even stopped my agreed value, said they didnt do it any more, that was two years ago i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopgunTT Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 They even stopped my agreed value, said they didnt do it any more, that was two years ago i think. Don't get me on the subject of our club insurer not doing agreed value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Are you saying that you changed your car before your insurance finished and didn't get any money back? If thats the case then thats the norm. They have you over a barrel. I had the same problem with A-Plan, i gave them a good mouthful over the phone when they came back with a quote at the end of the term after i had already told them to mark down that i won't be re-newing with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Sorry but no... EP3: Length 4140 mm Width 1980 mm Height 1440 mm Weight 1204 kg FN2: Length 4270 mm Width 2046 mm Height 1445 mm Weight 1357 kg FN2 is longer, wider, taller and heavier... EP3: Engine Size 1998 cc Cylinders 4 0-60 mph 6.4 s Power Output 197 bhp Valves 16 Torque 196 Nm 145 lb-ft Top Speed 146 mph FN2: Engine Size 1998 cc Cylinders 4 0-60 mph 6.4 s Power Output 198 bhp Valves 16 Torque 193 Nm 142 lb-ft Top Speed 146 mph EP3 appears to have a tiny amount of torque more than the FN2, but the FN2 have 1bhp more, yet their performance figures are the same? Running costs... EP3: MPG 31 Insurance Group 17 Euro Emissions Standard III CO2 Emissions 212 g/km FN2 MPG 31 Insurance Group 17 Euro Emissions Standard IV CO2 Emissions 215 g/km All the same, except the FN2 has slightly higher emissions. Practicality... EP3 Wheelbase 2575 mm Luggage Capacity 315 L Fuel Capacity 50 L Turning Circle 11 m FN2 Wheelbase 2620 mm Luggage Capacity 485 L Fuel Capacity 50 L Turning Circle 11 m So the FN2 DOES have a wider wheel base, which would aid handling, BUT... It holds more luggage, suggesting it's not race based like the Type-R originally was, but more family hatch back based. How can anyone insist that a bigger, heavier, clumsier car, with the same engine as it's smaller, lighter, more race-bred brother can be faster?! As I said, by no means is it a bad car, but it's falling further and further away from being a sporty car. The engine is pretty much the same as the old model! They haven't increased size or power at all. The S2000 has the k20, and that gets 240bhp! All the other hot hatches on the market are out perfoming the FN2, they could at least have gave it 220bhp like the Japanese model? Honda even changed the double wishbone suspension at the rear for a torsion beam! Not to aid the car at all, but to save money on production costs. The Type-R GT (top spec) includes, dual zone climate control (Left:right independent), rain sensing windscreen wipers, refrigerated glove box, automatic headlights with dusk sensor, front fog lights, power folding door mirrors and cruise control. Do you really NEED rain sensing window wipers on a TypeR? Dual zone climate control? Automatic headlights FFS?! And we all know how cruise control makes you feel like part of the car... This isn't a drivers car at all, it does everything for you!! If you're going to have a Type-R, get an EK9! Simple, and effective! Not chav-branded either, it's an enthusiast model, insurance companies know this too! I agree with your points about the added extras, but at fast road speeds, the newer car does not feel much bigger. Infact, I felt that the new Type R dealt with numerous, quick steering inputs better than the EP does (that's comparing 2 different EPs against a new demonstrator) Cornering speeds did seem a little faster in the older car, but the difference is nowhere near as bad as the motoring media has tried to make out. As for the suspension components, Honda has changed the rear suspension setup to save costs, but some of the finest handling cars around use a torsion beam (IE Peugeot 205) The EK is a completely different animal to the EP and the FN. Both the newer cars appear compromised in comparison. I haven't had the pleasure of driving an EK 'R'. Yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Wez_p had the very same problem with Sky when he bought my scooby. they charged him an extra £240+ going from a 407bhp TT to a 330bhp impreza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Are you saying that you changed your car before your insurance finished and didn't get any money back? If thats the case then thats the norm. They have you over a barrel. I had the same problem with A-Plan, i gave them a good mouthful over the phone when they came back with a quote at the end of the term after i had already told them to mark down that i won't be re-newing with them. I didnt want money back, i wanted to change foc or for a small admin fee as they call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I didnt want money back, i wanted to change foc or for a small admin fee as they call it. Thats unreal then buddy, totally unfair. Even i didn't get screwed over that much lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 I dont see the point in having insurance groups now then if this the new way, who decides on insurance groups anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I ignore the insurance groups. I used to pay more for a 2.2 Vectra estate than I did for a 500bhp single turbo UK spec with all the electronics in the world on it. It really is down to the background of the car model now and then down to the area you live in. Even driveway vs public road makes little difference now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Still its a decent enough guide tho, its never far off, yeh they can throw up some weird prices but this is daft more so because the supra was modded and the type r is bog standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I found exactly the same thing with Flux, i enquired about changing my car over from the Supra to one of the following, 350Z R34GTT S14 S15 And they where all from £25 to £100 more for the premium and and average of £75 to £100 more to swap over at less then mid term, and i was expecting it to be less! Obviously its mainly down to the admin charges etc for swapping mid term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) As mentioned above Ray, because of the above of accidents the Type R gets involved and the claims they get...this is the reason why it might be higher to insure even though the Supe is 3 insurance groups higher (EP3 is group 17). Its a like an older Jaguar XK would most likley be cheaper to insure than say an EP3, even though the Jag has a 4.0 v8 and the civic only a 2.0 (F20c for EP3). I once though of getting a BMW 730i (V8) when I was 20 as I saw you could pick them up for a really good price! Then thought the insurance would be ridiculous...I check online and nearly fell off my seat when I saw it was nearly 50% cheaper then my 1992 EG Civic (B16a). So mainly its Sky's underwriter who have the final say, they are mostly likely saying a lot of younger hot blooded males (which is true) love to buy Type R's, quite a few of them have been crashed so this makes insurance more expensive on them, nothing to do with your experience or quality of car. Still talk to them and push them to get the underwriters to get you a better deal, if they don't get you a better deal then tell them you will have to change insurers and do just that! Edited July 8, 2009 by Abz Grammer (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I ignore the insurance groups. I used to pay more for a 2.2 Vectra estate than I did for a 500bhp single turbo UK spec with all the electronics in the world on it. It really is down to the background of the car model now and then down to the area you live in. Even driveway vs public road makes little difference now. With the values of Supras becoming lower and lower, I was recently informed (Adrian Flux) that a tracker now makes no difference to my premium. So I may save £100 next year and cancel the air time thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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