Chris Wilson Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Second turbo has thrown its exhaust impeller parts down the manifold and as well the bypass valve has been damaged in so far as the arm that actuates it has come off, maybe due to impact on the butterfly (something doing 180,000 RPM has a lot of energy... The bypass valve is a really tricky bit of engineering, the outer body is ceramic, as is the shaft by appearance, maybe to stop rust and seizure at red hot temps. anyway i TIG welded the actuating arm back on. Refitting the new exchange turbo tomorrow, and all should be well. The oil feed into the 2nd turbo cartridge was well gunged up with cooked engine oil. Either lack of servicing or cheap oil at some time I guess. Pics of the bypass valve repair are at: Bypass Valve Repair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Why don't you guys just buy a single turbo? Directed Engineering is selling a street turbo kit for just 3200 USD. http://www.directedengineering.com/streetkit.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Yes, but cost increases a lot when everything else is added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by Syed Shah Yes, but cost increases a lot when everything else is added. Yep like a fuel system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by randy Why don't you guys just buy a single turbo? Directed Engineering is selling a street turbo kit for just 3200 USD. http://www.directedengineering.com/streetkit.php It's a bit like saying why don't i buy an F1 car. Getting the car is pretty straightforward, running it is NOT. Same with single turbo, buying a single turbo kit is trivial, putting the engine on mappable management, bigger injectors, proper fuel pump system, dropping the compression, suitable cams, blah blah. THEN the kit is peanuts, getting it to work properly is VERY expensive. the stock twin set up is a masterpiece of engineering, works brilliantly and supports modest power increases. 99% of my customers are quite happy with them. A properly engineered big BHP single conversion will cost about 50K UK pounds, if you are totally honest about it, same with Skylines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by randy Why don't you guys just buy a single turbo? Directed Engineering is selling a street turbo kit for just 3200 USD. http://www.directedengineering.com/streetkit.php You see this is the problem. Yes DE do very cheap kits. You could probably run the small one on 550's. Keep the boost low, at least that's what you'll tell yourself. Then one day yoy'll get over confident & bang. A lot more than $3200! What about the standard ecu's timing. Is that going to be right for a single? No. etc etc............ Beware, there are not many people like CW that will tell you the turbo kit is just the start. " Yeah stick on the single mate, it'll be fine":baa: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 You don't need the fuel system for the street kit immediately as you could run the turbo up to 550bhp safe on low boost for now and then upgrade to a full fuel system when you have the $$. Ofcourse this is with the 550cc UK spec injectors!! Quotes-- "One of our customers has reported that his car dynoed nearly 550rwhp with our kit on stock fuel, no fuel management, no electronics other than a boost controller, and with a smaller turbo. That was with our $3200 kit using a cast manifold." "We offer our complete single-turbo kit for people who don't have the money to buy everything at once. Regardless of what some people may tell you, you don't need an upgraded fuel system, a front mount intercooler, a VPC, a GCC, or even a boost controller. Of course they will all help, but you can get by fine without them, at least for awhile. We think it's actually a good idea to do it this way, as long as you're careful and don't push your car beyond its limits. Upgrading in stages will allow you to get used to the increased power before getting carried away and crashing your car or killing yourself. It will also give you a chance to decide how much power you really need. Some people go nuts and buy every add-on there is, only to realize its too fast or too laggy to even drive on the street. Some people think pushing "only" 500-550 rwhp with an sp57 is not enough for the street. Go try it. Especially coming from a stock or BPU supra, that's a lot of power." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 A load of crap mate, Don't listen to it, be careful about what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by Chris Wilson A properly engineered big BHP single conversion will cost about 50K UK pounds, if you are totally honest about it, same with Skylines. No wonder so few UK cars have single turbos!! Our friends in the US seem to be enjoying all the power it seems!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith C Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by randy No wonder so few UK cars have single turbos!! Our friends in the US seem to be enjoying all the power it seems!! For the 12 seconds or so to do their 1/4 mile runs. I personally listen to and pay attention to pretty much anything Chris posts, and try to bear it in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Randy, I suggest that you slap on a cheap big single and enjoy the power. Don't upgrade the fuelling, intercooler, ignition timing, engine management, or anything. You don't need to. The ECU is set up for a complex sequential twin turbo system, but it *will* cope with any off-the-shelf single turbo. The stock j-spec fuel system will easily handle 600bhp, as long as you put in a slightly bigger fuel pump. And get some big wheels first, that's a priority. And another bit of advice I'm sure you'll follow - don't listen to these guys, whatever you do. They'll tell you all sorts of things you don't want to hear. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by Ian C Randy, I suggest that you slap on a cheap big single and enjoy the power. Don't upgrade the fuelling, intercooler, ignition timing, engine management, or anything. You don't need to. The ECU is set up for a complex sequential twin turbo system, but it *will* cope with any off-the-shelf single turbo. The stock j-spec fuel system will easily handle 600bhp, as long as you put in a slightly bigger fuel pump. And get some big wheels first, that's a priority. And another bit of advice I'm sure you'll follow - don't listen to these guys, whatever you do. They'll tell you all sorts of things you don't want to hear. -Ian WTF are you on about ? Im not stating anything here is right or wrong just posted what was on Directed Engineerings website and what some other guys running this setup say. CHILL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon F Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by randy Regardless of what some people may tell you, you don't need an upgraded fuel system, a front mount intercooler, a VPC, a GCC, or even a boost controller. Of course they will all help, but you can get by fine without them,at least for awhile . What happens after this 'awhile' has elapsed without anything else being uprated?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by randy WTF are you on about ? Im not stating anything here is right or wrong just posted what was on Directed Engineerings website and what some other guys running this setup say. CHILL!! I think what is being said is something we call Caveat Emptor in the UK, Latin for buyer beware. The advertisement people will talk a good tale, the engineers will tell a very different one, but the ad peoples voice is a LOT louder. IMO the stuff you have quoted from the ad is total and utter rubbish. I am NOT having a go at you, just talking as I see it. I am 100% sure I am right though... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 And of course the main question would be 'why bother?'. If you are going to run a single at low boost then you may as well run a decent set of hybrids and gain loads more bottom end where the single will lose out. You only stick a single or twins on when you have reached the maximum of the stock sequential system. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Originally posted by randy You don't need the fuel system for the street kit immediately as you could run the turbo up to 550bhp safe on low boost for now and then upgrade to a full fuel system when you have the $$. Ofcourse this is with the 550cc UK spec injectors!! I have seen this quite a few times on the yank lists and i still can not fathom how anybody or any system can reliably regulate boost pressure accurately and hence BHP. So it seems from comments in this thread that i am not the only one to think it is the usual sales BS!. Those people that run some form of boost control (mechanical or electronic) can easily tell you that boost pressure can change from day to day or season to season and even more so if something gives way in the engine bay. It would only take a momentary boost spike to bring on detonation. If a fuel system is not immediately necessary why don't we all go out and buy the HKS twins and then just turn down the boost pressure to 0.4bar until we can afford the fuel system ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Firstly I have great respect for Dimitri at DE. He is a good guy & I know he means well. Martin's points are very valid & helpful ( there you go again Martin! ) I believe that a properly done hybrid system will perform as well as a small single with more low end torque. The advantages of a small single are the removal of the VSV's & a smoother power delivery & upgradability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Originally posted by Terry Saunders Firstly I have great respect for Dimitri at DE. He is a good guy & I know he means well. Good point, i certainly do not mean to discredit Dimitri's work as i have also been in touch with him over various issues and know that he is a very genuine guy. I feel that by offering these kits he is trying to provide for a niche in the market place rather than a total solution. Originally posted by Terry Saunders Martin's points are very valid & helpful ( there you go again Martin! ) Damn slipped again, must be old age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Originally posted by randy You don't need the fuel system for the street kit immediately as you could run the turbo up to 550bhp safe on low boost for now and then upgrade to a full fuel system when you have the $$. Ofcourse this is with the 550cc UK spec injectors!! Quotes-- "One of our customers has reported that his car dynoed nearly 550rwhp with our kit on stock fuel, no fuel management, no electronics other than a boost controller, and with a smaller turbo. That was with our $3200 kit using a cast manifold." "We offer our complete single-turbo kit for people who don't have the money to buy everything at once. Regardless of what some people may tell you, you don't need an upgraded fuel system, a front mount intercooler, a VPC, a GCC, or even a boost controller. Of course they will all help, but you can get by fine without them, at least for awhile. We think it's actually a good idea to do it this way, as long as you're careful and don't push your car beyond its limits. Upgrading in stages will allow you to get used to the increased power before getting carried away and crashing your car or killing yourself. It will also give you a chance to decide how much power you really need. Some people go nuts and buy every add-on there is, only to realize its too fast or too laggy to even drive on the street. Some people think pushing "only" 500-550 rwhp with an sp57 is not enough for the street. Go try it. Especially coming from a stock or BPU supra, that's a lot of power." I would like to see a dyno sheet for that and have an insight in the sort of fuel in use, egt's and the injector duty cycle. I think it's unfortunate that the US lists are so focused on peak BHP figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Don't forget that the Americans pump fuel can be much better than ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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