Matt H Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I read an article a few weeks back (can’t remember where unfortunately), which was brought to the front of my mind this morning reading a similar, yet less tragic story. The article was about an male who had got behind the wheel of his Merc to drive home. On route he crashed his car into a family vehicle, killing mother, father, daughter and leaving a young boy badly injured. He was alive yet orphaned. No amount of compensation can do anything to appease such a tragedy, and your feelings go out for all concerned, including the male driver who now has to live all his life with the fact that he ruined many lives beyond repair. You feel pity for everyone concerned, until you are informed that the Male took it upon himself to get in his car and drive home very much drunk. You then feel anger as it was no longer an accident; there is distinct blame, compounded by the unbelievably tragic conclusion. We all know the effects of drink driving in the Country, it is publicised regularly and the facts speak for themselves. The decline in RTAs following the change in the law to make drink driving illegal is unarguable. The male was sentenced to 4.5 years in prison, but we all know he will be out in much less. My question is; in this day and age, is drink driving premeditated murder? Should it be classed as this under trial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 No it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 As much as I hate drink-driving, it's hard to say that it's pre-meditated. Pre-meditated means the driver went out with the intention to take someone's life. No matter how much of a tool drink-drivers are, I don't think that's ever the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Is having a hand capable of killing someone premeditated murder? Is buying a kitchen knife? It's drink driving and causing death as a result of drink driving, not all drivers over the limit kill people. Drink driving is naughty but people should be convicted based on what they actually do wrong, not based on what they are capable of doing. In this scenario we'd all be given speeding and parking fines just because we have cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 No it's not. Agree.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 I can see it both ways. The driver wouldn't get in the car and think, right i'm going to kill someone now, but the very action of getting in the car KNOWING full well that he is drunk? He made a premeditated dicision to do so. As Mick says; buying a knife isn't premiditated murder, obviously. But if you take that knife and walk around the street with it, not intentianlly out to do anything, but never the less end up wounding someone for any reason? How would that be construed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullyd Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 i lost 2 of my buddys to a drink driver i think that anyone who gets behinde the wheel knowing their drunk or over the limit and kills someone should be charged with murder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 i lost 2 of my buddys to a drink driver i think that anyone who gets behinde the wheel knowing their drunk or over the limit and kills someone should be charged with murder surely the same should be said of driving too fast? You choose to drive over the speed limit whenever you do it, so you are therefore knowingly risking killing somebody through your own actions.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 surely the same should be said of driving too fast? You choose to drive over the speed limit whenever you do it, so you are therefore knowingly risking killing somebody through your own actions.. You could certainly argue that, but someone having no control over a car while in it is far worse than breaking the speed limit (in general - incident specific of course). You are in no fit state to drive after alcohol full stop. It impairs your ability to drive. It can be argued that you can safely drive a car above the speed limit, say on a motorway, but there is no possible way you can drive a car safely under the influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rays the roof Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 surely the same should be said of driving too fast? You choose to drive over the speed limit whenever you do it, so you are therefore knowingly risking killing somebody through your own actions.. I agree. Also: 1. Allowing the elderly, women or blind people to drive is irresponsible; 2. Allowing people to drive silly coloured 'orange' cars around is dangerous and distracting; 3. typing this PM on my laptop while driving 93mph on the hardshoulder, although not as dangerous as the above is a little naughty. Motorway signs near us are focussing on drug driving at the moment, which is why I immediately threw my spliff out of the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronttuk Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 A guy down here crashed on the A130 paralising a woman he got charged with GBH so i think it will be comming the police are linking up crimes to get better figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You could certainly argue that, but someone having no control over a car while in it is far worse than breaking the speed limit (in general - incident specific of course). You are in no fit state to drive after alcohol full stop. It impairs your ability to drive. It can be argued that you can safely drive a car above the speed limit, say on a motorway, but there is no possible way you can drive a car safely under the influence. I disagree, there are probably thousands who drive while over or near the limit every day. They dont all die in a horrible fireball wiping out whole families. They have a reduced level of ability while drunk, but then so do people who drive while tired. You also have people with knowingly poorly maintained or repaired cars who risk killing others through their actions. Should they be classed the same as drunk people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Since when did you think that drunks made rational decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 2. Allowing people to drive silly coloured 'orange' cars around is dangerous and distracting;. Only to females 3. typing this PM on my laptop while driving 93mph on the hardshoulder, although not as dangerous as the above is a little naughty. Motorway signs near us are focussing on drug driving at the moment, which is why I immediately threw my spliff out of the window. What about your viagra?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If I killed someone whilst driving under the influence of strong painkillers, would that be premedicated murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 i lost 2 of my buddys to a drink driver i think that anyone who gets behinde the wheel knowing their drunk or over the limit and kills someone should be charged with murder How about getting behind the wheel of a badly maintained car. Catastrophic failures happen from time to time, particularly on older cars with poor service history - is that premeditated murder? Such losses are most regrettable, but the resulting scenario is not a part of the intentional act by the parties involved: so it's not premeditated murder. Your statement is a classic example of why anyone directly affected by a crime (any crime) should never be involved with the trial for the prosecution, the judgment or any resulting sentencing. It's too personal an issue to judge appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 the facts speak for themselves. The decline in RTAs following the change in the law to make drink driving illegal is unarguable. Interesting. When was this change? I thought being drunk while driving had always been illegal, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Im pretty sure some drink drivers are so wasted that they really don't know what they are doing, they don't actually realise they are driving if that makes sense!!! How many times have you been out on the piss and been told what you got up to with no recollection of doing it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rays the roof Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 If I killed someone whilst driving under the influence of strong painkillers, would that be premedicated murder? premedicated - Very funny Animal..... What about an angry women with PMS, who runs her husband over because her folded the pot towel the wrong way that morning? Would that be premenstruated murder??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 premedicated - Very funny Animal..... What about an angry women with PMS, who runs her husband over because her folded the pot towel the wrong way that morning? Would that be premenstruated murder??? That'd just be a bloody mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You could certainly argue that, but someone having no control over a car while in it is far worse than breaking the speed limit (in general - incident specific of course). You are in no fit state to drive after alcohol full stop. It impairs your ability to drive. There's 2 issues emerging here: 1) redesignation of offence. You can't change the offence someone is charged with just so that a (possibly) more severe punishment can apply. Someone who causes death by drink driving can't be charged with murder unless they intended to cause death. Suppose a drunk driver went for a drive, and got to his destination without incident. Would he be pleased that he'd "got away with it", or would he be disappointed that he hadn't killed anyone? I think what you're really arguing for is a much stiffer penalty for drink driving, not a re-designation as murder. 2) Alcohol does impair someone's ability to drive. However, so does talking on a mobile phone (and to a similar degree, according to some researchers). Should people who cause death in such a way be charged with murder? I abhor people who use mobile phones whilst driving, but that doesn't make them murderers, even if they knock someone down. As SteveR said, people shouldn't let emotion cloud their judgement on things like this. Easy for me to say, as I don't know anyone who's been a victim of a drunk driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rays the roof Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Just read an article in the local weekly Farmer's Guardian. It appears the cows that trampled that poor woman to death the other week have been convicted and will soon be slaughtered. The prosecution claimed they had not been milked that morning and hence it was a clear case of prelactated murder!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Interesting. When was this change? I thought being drunk while driving had always been illegal, no? http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/18/newsid_2562000/2562711.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Just read an article in the local weekly Farmer's Guardian. It appears the cows that trampled that poor woman to death the other week have been convicted and will soon be slaughtered. The prosecution claimed they had not been milked that morning and hence it was a clear case of prelactated murder!! That's bad moos, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So - following your (entirely flawed) logic - getting caught for drink driving when you haven't actually had an accident would now be classed as attempted murder? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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