tbourner Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Put a deposit on a P-reg Rover 114 GSi for the missus to drive, everything on it is lovely except for a few small bits that need doing, it drives well and didn't overheat on a 20 min drive in hot weather. But; when I stopped I opened the bonnet and the expansion tank was gurgling, then every few seconds there'd be a slosh of fluid from the tank through the top pipe to the radiator - is this how it's supposed to work? Seemed a bit odd? Surely if it wasn't overheating then the head is good, but maybe an imminent failure? The expansion tank was also a lovely shade of chocolate milkshake, but that could have been from an earlier failure and just not cleaned through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronttuk Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 i would get my deposit back it could be head gasket but then again it could be thermostat bvut i wouldnt buy a car with faults unless i knew about them before price agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well I don't know if it is a fault! I've got no reason to ask for my deposit back so there's no chance I'd get it unless I can prove it's got a fault which makes it unfit for purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) I've owned 2 Rover Metros (1.1 k-series engine) and had HGF on one of them. IIRC the discoloured expansion tank doesn't necessarily mean previous HGF. The plastic tends to discolour over time. I had to rock the car to see the level of the coolant in the tank on mine! Not sure what you mean by fluid sloshing through the top pipe. Do you mean the small rubber hose connecting the top of the rad to the top of the expansion tank? It doesn't ring any alarm bells for me, although I don't know how you'd know this is happening (easy to see fluid going from rad to tank, but very tricky to spot it going from tank to rad). When the expansion tank level rises, this small hose *might* be below the coolant level (although it is right at the top of the tank), thus allowing coolant to flow along it from tank to rad. I think the normal flow direction along that hose is from rad to tank. PS shameless plug: I may have some bits left over from my metro days (Haynes manual, unused water pump, thermostat, spare 3AS remote key fobs) that you could have for a few beer tokens. Interested? Edited June 18, 2009 by stevie_b (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yep sorry I just mean the hose was moving slightly and I heard a sloshing sound, it probably was going from rad to tank rather than VV - should've thought of that. Why would it be doing that after switching off the engine though? I'm a numpty with cars I don't know how these things are supposed to work, something to with expansion of water with temperature and the E-tank taking up the excess? Parts: we would be interested yes! I'll reply at some point when (if) we pick it up and see what we get with it, it will probably need a thermostat at some point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 You can get a sniffer test done that will tell you for definite if the HG is blown at the moment. It might not be blown though, the K-series engine can often go several months between HG failures, if you get a good'un. Been there, t-shirt, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've had 2 K-series engines before, a 1.4 16V and a 1.8 VVC, both for over a year and a half and never had any issues with either. I've also heard the 8V 1.4 in the GSi is less likely to suffer it than the 16V? I get very conflicting views on this car from here and the mg-rover forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yep sorry I just mean the hose was moving slightly and I heard a sloshing sound, it probably was going from rad to tank rather than VV - should've thought of that. Why would it be doing that after switching off the engine though? I'm a numpty with cars I don't know how these things are supposed to work, something to with expansion of water with temperature and the E-tank taking up the excess? A possible explanation of your symptoms: Due to the car not moving (thus the engine losing the cooling effect of the airflow whilst moving), the water temperature can often creep up a bit more when you park up and turn off. Cars that have a cooling fan that's not on permanently but does have a permanent electrical feed, sometimes have their fans come on for a couple of minutes after you've parked up. This temperature lag could cause the coolant to travel along that small hose after you've parked up, although I've never seen it happen in either of my metros. The temperature going up would cause the coolant to expand some more, which could cause some of the coolant to be pushed along that hose into the expansion tank, whose purpose is to collect any coolant that gets forced out of the radiator or block due to expansion effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have to say it felt very hot under the bonnet! It's an electric fan I guess but I didn't hear it come on at all. Another metro owner is telling me not to bother with it (and lose my deposit I guess), I know if I take it away and go straight to a garage for compression checks and stuff I'll have no chance getting my money back from the garage who's selling it! It's got MOT from last month which is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodfreak Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 two other signs of HGF in these are;- 1. over pressurised top radiator hose ( you should be able to depress the hose 1/2- 3/4 inch easily when hot) 2.oil emulsion ( mayonnaise) under oil filler cap & cam covers Check the condition of the radiator......a lot are rusted through by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I had a good look over the car for rust and it's not too bad, I haven't looked at the rad but the car in general is nice, must have been garaged quite a lot. I keep thinking if it drives as well as it does, lots of power available, and the temp guage didn't seem to go through the roof within minutes (I didn't really pay a lot of attention to it mind), then it's probably OK? If I get some sniff tests or compression or whatever done and find the gasket is leaking at least the head is in good condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I keep thinking if it drives as well as it does, lots of power available, and the temp guage didn't seem to go through the roof within minutes (I didn't really pay a lot of attention to it mind), then it's probably OK? If I get some sniff tests or compression or whatever done and find the gasket is leaking at least the head is in good condition? AFAIK a broken head is rare on these engines. HGF is far more common. Having said that, the evidence you've mentioned doesn't necessarily point to HGF, so it might be just fine. If the rear wheel arches and floor pan aren't rusted, and it's selling cheap (a good condition one should have a cheap price tag, a bad condition one is only good for scrap metal), it *could* be a good buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 It's cheap for a garage sale, but I could get one privately for less if I got over my fear of buying privately! I'm also swaying more towards this one because the wife has fallen for it and I'm gonna get at least 3 weeks of grumbling and moaning if we don't get it! Can a numpty change a HG? I know the kit is about £50 but the labour to replace is like £400!!! I guess I'll be needing a haynes manual or something to do it if it does turn out to need one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) I changed the head gasket on my 1.1 k-series. It was OK, it took me quite a few weekends to do it, but I was learning (lots!) as I went. It takes a long time when you read about a part you have to remove, and you don't even know what it looks like. I had to read what felt like most of the Haynes manual before I knew what I was doing. In hindsight much of it is common sense, but some of it isn't IMO, at least for a novice. For a DIY mechanic who knows their way around engines, it would only take a weekend I would think. I tried to do it thoroughly: replacing the head bolts instead of fitting the old ones, getting the head skimmed by a machine shop, etc. Before I did this job, the most I'd done on cars is change tyres, engine oil+filter, air filter and spark plugs/leads. I knew a HELL of a lot more about an engine after I'd done it. If you're interested in learning about engines and don't need the car back on the road in a hurry, I'd say go for it. It was a brilliant feeling cranking the engine over and hearing it start, when a few weekends before that same engine was in pieces on the garage floor, and a bl**dy big hole under the bonnet where it should be! If you do decide to do it, I'll help out on here wherever I can. If you get really stuck I could try and come down to lend a hand, although I've got some pretty busy weekends coming up (DIY etc). Do you have a good basic set of tools? You only really need the basics (spanners, socket set, torx bits). You'd also need a torque wrench, which is less commonly found in a DIYer's toolbox. You'd need a trolley jack too: IIRC you need to undo one of the engine mounts and support the engine from underneath with a jack. If you do it, a Haynes manual is an absolute must. I'll see if I can find mine at home. Edited June 19, 2009 by stevie_b (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 I've got a varied but very unorganised tool box!! Could borrow a torque wrench from work over weekends if necessary, and we've got the minibus to drive if I need to buy anything else. Not sure how Zoe would feel about her new car being in bits for weeks though! It might not even need it, I'll try and 'sniff' the expansion tank if I can get to the car before he 'shows off' how quickly it starts again. I need to check under the carpets as well and find out what the switch is to the right of the steering wheel (see attached)! When we get her I'll get the door cards off to see if I can't fid the central locking and electric window wiring too. Sounds like a project then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 No idea what that switch is: it's either aftermarket, or something that wasn't fitted to the early metros (i.e. pre- Rover 100 facelift). The door cards are simple to take off. The central locking motors from Rover are very crappy. Maplins do ones for about a third of the price that are infinitely better, and nearly a straight swap (you might need to make a little bracket). Some HGF threads in case you need them, just to give you an idea of what's involved: http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=116849 http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=116065 http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=114228 http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=111878 The head gasket itself may be £50 or so, but the parts bill could easily reach £100 (new camshaft oil seals, rocker cover gasket, etc). But, as you said, it might not need it. The evidence at the moment is very inconclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 Thanks dude. We've picked it up, done about 15 miles in it and it seems good enough. I think the ignition is bum though cos the radio and windows work with the key out - don't know if it's a fault or some numpty wired it like that so they could wind the windows up when they noticed it was raining and not have to get the key! Door rattles too, but I'm pretty sure it's the central locking mechanism, so I'll have a go at ripping the card off tomorrow and see what it all looks like inside, then off to the scrappy to see if we can pilfer anything useful. When we picked it up he said he'd checked all the lights and levels, and he put a bit more water in than it needed so if some comes out it's just that - nicely worrying then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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