Homer Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Should have had a poll on this thread, just to see how wrong / right / indifferent we all are. Good point, done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Good Poll Options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Sorry have not read the thread, so I apologise now for any repeat subjects. My pet hate are those, which appear to be the majority on the poll, who did not vote at all. while I appreciate that all political parties are generally quite usless and self endulgent, at the end of the day we have to have one. Therefore its a case of picking the best of a bad bunch. How many of you sit there when new tax systems are brought in to penalise drivers or we adopt silly EU laws and wave your fist at the TV saying damn you!? Then you don't vote? Change has to start somewhere and not voting achieves nothing other than allowing the wrong people to govern this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Always vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Sorry have not read the thread, so I apologise now for any repeat subjects. My pet hate are those, which appear to be the majority on the poll, who did not vote at all. while I appreciate that all political parties are generally quite usless and self endulgent, at the end of the day we have to have one. Therefore its a case of picking the best of a bad bunch. That is what i believe is inherently wrong with this country and the reason that i DON'T vote. If there is noone suitable to vote for, don't vote! Read what Ian C wrote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Black Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I totally reject the "if you don't vote you can't complain" and "if you don't vote you are perfectly happy with the current state". Both are false dichotomies, and I thank you for finally allowing me to use that phrase since I learnt it a year or so ago So - "If you don't vote you can't complain". This also implies "if the party you voted for gets in, you can't complain as you wanted them". So if you voted in labour, you're 100% happy and fully behind fiddling the expenses and ruining the economy and taking away you freedoms. Does that work? I think not. It's like "choose which trifle you want, the choccy one or the sherry one - if you don't choose you'll get one at random". But you know the choccy one is cheap and nasty and tastes foul, and you don't like sherry. So you get sherry at random, start to choke it down, and it's got ground f***ing glass in it - which wasn't exactly advertised at the choosing stage. So, seriously, you are saying that you can't complain your trifle has ground glass in it because you didn't choose which one to have without knowing that fact? Turns out the choccy one had weedkiller in it by the way. Still, can't complain, you didn't choose. Absolute nonsense. Not voting is a sign of knowing that whoever you vote in is going to f*** you with lies while lining their own pockets*. It's like choosing which porcupine to get shoved up your ass. Mind you I nearly did vote this time just to help shove Labour out of power. As it turns out, job done without my assistance, thank you loyal voters. -Ian *see "politician" in dictionary, all definitions If my vague recollection of the word dichotomy serves, im in one, as i agree with the above but i also agree with Extendor's opinion that the whole voting system needs overhauling etc etc, however i would take it further and say the whole "democratic"? system needs an overhaul, if there are that many people who feel totally unrepresented by any of the parties on offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L33 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 i never vote, no matter who is in there is always a mass complaint about people doing it wrong! i know its a different election but think back to maggie thatcher, brought in poll tax and people didnt like it, then next chap came in got rid and just called it council tax? every one thats in gets hated for one reason or another and is labeled not fit for the job! happened to blair about the war and now the same for current mp so why bother? and after this expenses scandal, heard no one is going to be charged for fraud just makes me wild! you always hear of these single parents who commit benifit fraud as they need the extra £20 there trying to scam to survive and get the book chucked at them and these so call people who run the country scam 1000s and just get away with it. grrr mad! but thats another row Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Unless you have carefully studied the details of the policy proposals of ALL the various candidates and parties concerned then how can anyone be properly informed as to who to vote for? I think that most people vote with their minds tuned to their own individual prejudices, hearsay and what they read in the paper or heard down the pub. Which makes a mockery of the whole process. As such I find it impossible to cast a vote on something that I feel unqualified for, so I don't vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 It's the same the world over when people lose faith in politicians and government, extreme views prevail - hence the BNP thing. No-one has any faith in any government elected. - the party I voted for isn't in that list btw? can you guess what it is yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 It's the same the world over when people lose faith in politicians and government, extreme views prevail - hence the BNP thing. No-one has any faith in any government elected. - the party I voted for isn't in that list btw? can you guess what it is yet? Socialists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Unless you have carefully studied the details of the policy proposals of ALL the various candidates and parties concerned then how can anyone be properly informed as to who to vote for? I think that most people vote with their minds tuned to their own individual prejudices, hearsay and what they read in the paper or heard down the pub. Which makes a mockery of the whole process. As such I find it impossible to cast a vote on something that I feel unqualified for, so I don't vote. Surely you can vote based on the things that are important to you and the people you care about. You can never reconcile all the issues so you have to prioritise and compromise. In my own situation I have to balance the need for business against personal preferences. They are not always conducive to each other. BUT I do not turn away from the problem and instead confront and solve it. It takes effort but as has said before - it is the only right you have and you should exercise it. The more I hear about reasons to not vote the more I see it boils down to lazyness. If you have a valid point to make about not voting and have a frustration with how things are then how are you going to change thing. Not one single non voter has come up with any suggestion that gives them a solution about how to change things. What can a non voter do legally to get things changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Surely you can vote based on the things that are important to you and the people you care about. So who will help us the most? And in what way? BTW I'm a full time employee with a mortgage in -ve equity, my wife works full time as well, we have no kids, don't plan on having kids, but we have a dog (who we can't claim benefits for for some reason, even though he's just as expensive!), and lots of debt. I don't know which of them will help me the most because like I said I haven't researched any of their proposals. I'm not willing to just swallow their leaflets that come through the door cos they're not likely to come true! So is it better to just go and stick a cross in any old box at random, or to not bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 - the party I voted for isn't in that list btw? can you guess what it is yet? Was it the monster raving looneys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 So who will help us the most? And in what way? BTW I'm a full time employee with a mortgage in -ve equity, my wife works full time as well, we have no kids, don't plan on having kids, but we have a dog (who we can't claim benefits for for some reason, even though he's just as expensive!), and lots of debt. I don't know which of them will help me the most because like I said I haven't researched any of their proposals. I'm not willing to just swallow their leaflets that come through the door cos they're not likely to come true! So is it better to just go and stick a cross in any old box at random, or to not bother? So you are feeling the pinch. Hypothetically speaking is the problem one of over taxation, is your job paying crap money because your employer is over burdened by bureauocrasy/high fuel charges and therefore not making profit. etc etc. You must have some reasons why things are the way they are for you. Identify them for yourselves and see who has a policy that will solve this. You can only find if you look. If you feel that the system is wrong then get active in sorting the system out. Talk to others about how the sytem does not serve you. Be vociferous and active. Get involved because at the end of the day it is your life and you deserve better - don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 So who will help us the most? And in what way? BTW I'm a full time employee with a mortgage in -ve equity, my wife works full time as well, we have no kids, don't plan on having kids, but we have a dog (who we can't claim benefits for for some reason, even though he's just as expensive!), and lots of debt. I don't think any political party is there to help people in debt. The whole credit crunch situation has proved that people that took advantage of borrowing more than they had have suffered the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I don't think any political party is there to help people in debt. The whole credit crunch situation has proved that people that took advantage of borrowing more than they had have suffered the most. Oh, I thought it was the fault of the immigrates taking our jobs and claiming our benefits? is that not the case? should I stop worrying about racial purity now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Was it the monster raving looneys? ha! Socialist Labour actually... remember when Labour actually stood for working class people? like back in the day? Appalling website they have though.. maybe I should offer my services.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 We are in danger of getting off topic with the debt thing. Debt is perfectly alright so long as the economy , job security etc are all stable. Debt becomes a problem when salaries are cut, redundancies are made, taxation rises and a whole host of other reasons. Some of these reasons are unavoidable and you have no control over them but things like taxation, your employers business being unviable because of legislation or mass immigration displacing native workers (or whatever drum you bang) are actually things that can be controlled by government policy if there is a national will to do something about it. Things can only change when people want change. Look how sh1t scared the MP's are at present now the public have got their teeth into them over expenses. MP's are suddenly not the all powerful beings they thought they were and people have started to see that they can make a difference. For heavens sake dont drop the ball now people, run with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Out of the 42 people to have voted so far, I was the only one to have voted labour. Am I the only labour voter here, I think not. But if I am, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Out of the 42 people to have voted so far, I was the only one to have voted labour. Am I the only labour voter here, I think not. But if I am, so be it. I would have... but living in the south even the down and outs vote conservative I think they still regard it as a status thing to vote Conservative ..we're not 'working class' we can't vote Labour.. pah! Obviously I have to go as far left as I can to balance up all the BNP votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I did not vote for two reasons: 1) My vote does NOT make a difference. Thousands and thousands of people who normally vote stopping voting - that would matter, but just my one vote - nah - no difference to anything. TRUE democracy is proportional representation - not this poor excuse of a democratic system that we have today. Unless you live in a marginal seat, it's pretty pointless. When I tell most people this, the standard comeback is "well - if everybody thought like that........." - to which I say: if EVERYBODY else thought like that, then I definitely WOULD vote, as my vote WOULD make a difference - so yes - as soon as my vote actually matters to anything - let me know - then I'll be there. Until then, I've got better things to do with my time than reduce a 10,000 majority by 1. 2) Secondly, and more importantly, I didn't vote because I am not qualified to do so. I do not understand anywhere near enough about most of the decisions politicians have to make to be able to determine who is right and who is wrong. eg. "Should we join the Euro?" - how the frig should I know? The top political and economic minds in the country differ in their opinion, so my comparatively uninformed opinion can't be worth a button! eg. "Should we have joined the war in Iraq?" - again - dunno - I don't know nearly enough about the balance of the human, political and economic aspects to judge. The more I think about it, the less I consider myself to be in any way, shape or form qualified to decide on these things. ---------- Oh - and I've come up with a good idea to help fix the political system: An independent body should be set up to assess how well an elected candidate meets their pre-electoral promises. Any shortfalls in meeting their promises should actually be calculated as a numerical value and deducted from their votes in subsequent elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 2) Secondly, and more importantly, I didn't vote because I am not qualified to do so. I do not understand anywhere near enough about most of the decisions politicians have to make to be able to determine who is right and who is wrong. eg. "Should we join the Euro?" - how the frig should I know? The top political and economic minds in the country differ in their opinion, so my comparatively uninformed opinion can't be worth a button! eg. "Should we have joined the war in Iraq?" - again - dunno - I don't know nearly enough about the balance of the human, political and economic aspects to judge. The more I think about it, the less I consider myself to be in any way, shape or form qualified to decide on these things. Can you read? The Internet is a fantastic tool for researching stuff. Hell, read enough and you may even find you have an opinion. There are books too. Have you seen them? They can help too. Or are you just lazy? BTW, real democracy will never happen unless we all fundamentally change our ways and take control of our own lives. So let's start calling if Fauxmocracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Can you read? The Internet is a fantastic tool for researching stuff. Hell, read enough and you may even find you have an opinion. There are books too. Have you seen them? They can help too. Or are you just lazy? Well, to be fair - you have got me there to some degree - I am fundamentally lazy about researching most stuff like this - I tend to feel that my time is better spent researching things which feel more important to me personally and which I am actually interested in. Most political topics do not interest me and actually seem to affect me very little. However, you bring up an interesting point - maybe only people who can demonstrate that they have a decent level of understanding of the given issues should be entitled to vote? Also - do you really think there is sufficient information publically available to understand most decisions - using the Iraq war as an example again - there was clearly a golbal political factor (friendship with the US superpower) and an economic factor (interest in oil supplies) - but this information is not going to be generally available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 However, you bring up an interesting point - maybe only people who can demonstrate that they have a decent level of understanding of the given issues should be entitled to vote? How about not allowing anyone who wants to be in a position of power to actually be in a position of power? Also - do you really think there is sufficient information publically available to understand most decisions - using the Iraq war as an example again - there was clearly a golbal political factor (friendship with the US superpower) and an economic factor (interest in oil supplies) - but this information is not going to be generally available. Good point. The info is out there but you have to look deeper than the mainstream media. In most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Wow, some crusade there Mike. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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