Guest jtjerry Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Hi to all I have emanage ultimate in my car and I have strange problem. when I use logger - sometimes (but often) - it lost ignition logs. Everything work ok but logger show some stupid ignition signals as say: -120 or something... I try different method from menu but it do not solve that strange problem. Any ideas? perhaps some one had same problem and solved it. btw change ver from 2.16 to 2.20 do not help. thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I have only ever been able to log the timing advance that is dialled in on the map, never total timing, not overly keen on the internal logging anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 There are a lot of problems with E-manage Ultimates at the moment. I had to go with another ecu due to the faults. Not sure if this is anything to do with your issue, but thought you should be aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraman Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I am fitting an emanage ultimate at the moment and was concerned about your comment! Can you provide more details or point me to were you got the info from. Cheers There are a lot of problems with E-manage Ultimates at the moment. I had to go with another ecu due to the faults. Not sure if this is anything to do with your issue, but thought you should be aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 There's a thread on here, i'll dig it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraman Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Thanks There's a thread on here, i'll dig it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I have only ever heard about the problem on the early batch of EMUs where the ignition chip was too close to the edge of the board, so anyone changing the jumpers ended up knocking it loose and causing a misfire or no start. Not heard of or encountered any problems with mine, I'm just not keen on there logging system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I'm a fan of their logging when recording it on a laptop and opening it in Excel to view. The internal logging is rather more limited, but pretty good if you're out and about doing testing rather than tuning (it's how I did the DBB testing). The Greddy software for viewing the logs is rather Meh. Still lightyears ahead of the Blue's logging capabilities though. The ignition timing does sometimes go mental and log crazy number like -200deg so you can't really rely on it. The values it logs for everything else is dependable though, including the timing adjustments the EMU itself is making. Can't say I've heard of any current problems with EMU's at the moment, never mind "lots" -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtjerry Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 thanks for answer what set up do you run for knock sensors? I have one wired and set up is: resonant type at 7.02, it looks log knock sensor signal but not sure if setings are good, and how interprete it, 50% max knocking is good or too much? I have only knockning in 6000-7000 rpm range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supraman Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Thanks a lot for the responses. They have been really helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) thanks for answer what set up do you run for knock sensors? I have one wired and set up is: resonant type at 7.02, it looks log knock sensor signal but not sure if setings are good, and how interprete it, 50% max knocking is good or too much? I have only knockning in 6000-7000 rpm range The knock frequency is directly related to the bore size, the 2jz has a bore of 86mm so the knock frequency needs to be set ideally at 6.7 Khz, but the ultimate has the nearest of 6.73 Khz. Yours is set for a smaller size piston, which may explain the readings, i have never seen more than 15%, not that i would rely on the EMU knock logs. I use a KS-3 and det cans for serious tuning. Edited June 2, 2009 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtjerry Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 thanks for explanations I have 1jz gteso it is 2500 cc not 3000cc it has 86 bore and 71.5 stroke what is rule to set right frequence? thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 thanks for explanations I have 1jz gteso it is 2500 cc not 3000cc it has 86 bore and 71.5 stroke what is rule to set right frequence? thanks Jerry 86mm bore = 6.7Khz the larger the bore size the smaller the figure. Here is a link to an easy calulator,http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtjerry Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 1jz and 2jz have same bore 86 mm only difference is 1jz have shorter stroke so by your formula knocj frequence for 1jz and 2jz should be the same as both have same bore? correct? thanks Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) 1jz and 2jz have same bore 86 mm only difference is 1jz have shorter stroke so by your formula knocj frequence for 1jz and 2jz should be the same as both have same bore? correct? thanks Jerry Yes! sorry i must have had my old Nissan in mind, i have edited my earlier post to avoid confusion. Edited June 2, 2009 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtjerry Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The knock frequency is directly related to the bore size, the 2jz has a bore of 86mm so the knock frequency needs to be set ideally at 6.7 Khz, but the ultimate has the nearest of 6.73 Khz. Yours is set for a smaller size piston, which may explain the readings, i have never seen more than 15%, not that i would rely on the EMU knock logs. I use a KS-3 and det cans for serious tuning. why you trust more external added device than stock one? KS-3 use knock sensor that you must bolt to engine block without any knowleage where mout it? why taht bolt not that next one? why? so for that reason your ste could be false. Emanage use stock sensors from toyota. Toyota use their full knowleage to position stock sensors in right place and calibrate that sensors. Please forgive me but I trust more toyota sensor placed by toyota than instalation that is made without any knowleage. another story is how to interprate signals. pity that toyota obd1 community do not have after 25 years any scann tool that could read data stream from ecu and give information that is seen by ecu (for example if you have mitsubishi you can add data logger and see true ignition timing and true ecu knock sum value. we have nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The answer is quite simple, 1, I did some preliminary testing of the prototype KS-3 and know how good they are, they use what is kind of falsely know as i wide band knock sensor, it is far more sensitive that a std knock sensor, and is calibrated via the electronics to show only knock and not engine noise. 2, The std sensors although designed to do there job can be up to 15 years old and do suffer from wear so to speak, also as an engine wears, the vibration frequency's also change. 3, in the 3 years that i have been using EMU on the Supra, i have yet to see the std respond to det by more than 6% via the EMU logs, yet i have deliberately induced knock while testing the KS-3. 4, i would NEVER tune my engine using just the EMU knock logs, always by KS-3 or similar AND det cans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtjerry Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The answer is quite simple, 1, I did some preliminary testing of the prototype KS-3 and know how good they are, they use what is kind of falsely know as i wide band knock sensor, it is far more sensitive that a std knock sensor, and is calibrated via the electronics to show only knock and not engine noise. 2, The std sensors although designed to do there job can be up to 15 years old and do suffer from wear so to speak, also as an engine wears, the vibration frequency's also change. 3, in the 3 years that i have been using EMU on the Supra, i have yet to see the std respond to det by more than 6% via the EMU logs, yet i have deliberately induced knock while testing the KS-3. 4, i would NEVER tune my engine using just the EMU knock logs, always by KS-3 or similar AND det cans. so why not use something that is not as much more pricely but can adjust knock even individually on each cylinder: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/VampirePage/J&S_Vampire.html it not only show but work on closed loop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 so why not use something that is not as much more pricely but can adjust knock even individually on each cylinder: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/VampirePage/J&S_Vampire.html it not only show but work on closed loop Saw those a few years ago, but they weren't as advanced, not exactly cheap though! You only really need to monitor knock during the tuning process, so det cans are easy and very cheap to make, and most tuners use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtjerry Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 2, The std sensors although designed to do there job can be up to 15 years old and do suffer from wear so to speak, also as an engine wears, the vibration frequency's also change. . same about 15 years old injectors, 15 years old another sensors (why not change all another sensors?) same about wiring, ecu, wheels and crankshaft. everything is 15 years old. why you can relay on all another 15 year old sensors but not knock sensors? Do you have any proof that knock sensors degradate in time? not urban legend but proof. sorry but for me that do not make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 No, don't have proof, other than knock sensors are a pizzo electric device, and pizzo electric crystals do degrade over time, If you are happy to rely on the std sensors thats fine, as i said i would not just rely on the std sensors, i prefer tried and tested methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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