Who are you voting for?

[RedM]

I think you utterly missed the point of my post..I was trying to suggest that as Labour went from extreme left to centre as their popularity grew I am hoping the BNP would too... Ie be less racist and more mainstream.

 

Bearing in mind you have ranted for 10 pages about how racist the bnp are can you clarify why my suggestion of the bnp potentially mellowing appears to have upset you?

 

What's utter rubbish with my opinion?

 

In my posted Youtube clip you can hear Nick Griffin saying that his party is NOT mellowing. It's just changing the words it uses so that it come across in a more 'appealing' way to the average man.

 

If the head of the BNP says that then you have f**k all hope of ever seeing them mellow.

 

I wonder if people can't see them for what they are because they don't think a fascist state could ever happen in Europe. The last time was truly horrific. It couldn't possibly happen again. Right?

[Mike]

Hoping for 'more mellow' policies from an extreme group of right-wing fascists is just hilarious.

 

I am hoping the BNP would too... Ie be less racist and more mainstream.

 

I'm going to bed now. Night.

[marbleapple]

 

Did you watch that Youtube clip I posted?

 

I repeat Chris Wilsons earlier post re your clip.

 

I also have a very good clip about alan sugar and the apprentice... Remind me to post that up. Lots of out of context clips by a person with a very polar opinion.

[marbleapple]

I'm going to bed now. Night.

 

I don't know why if Labour can do it why the BNP couldn't. Get that idiot of a leader out and work from the inside.

 

Night Mike

 

Rorscharch: their leader is an idiot... I doubt he has anything to do with the tactics Charlotte was impressed by. As we might see with Labour, party leaders can be changed.

 

As for the facist state, I for one see it. It's only ever happened in Europe. My political view is against the BNP but I figure if you try understand why they are doing better you can learn to counter them.

[RedM]

I repeat Chris Wilsons earlier post re your clip.

 

I also have a very good clip about alan sugar and the apprentice... Remind me to post that up. Lots of out of context clips by a person with a very polar opinion.

 

Just look for the full length version. You can see the exact same words in the exact same context. He is not quoted out of context. It's not the only time he's given that speech either.

 

Honestly, some of you could look out the window at the rain and still argue that it isn't raining. You can deny it if you want but If he talks like a fascist and acts like a fascist, he's a fascist.

[Ewen]

Can you explain how the BNP would move us to Anarchy and give examples of Anarchism in the policies?

First off, my post was sarcastic...not voting full stop is letting BNP in and all that guff.

Secondly, I didn't say the BNP supported Anarchy or that Anarchy made up any part of their policies. I meant (sarcastically) that not voting for any party would allow the BNP to gain power to the eventual unrealistic extent that they gained the majority vote...obviously they would not be 'allowed' to come into power, resulting in an absence of real government, or Anarchy.

Sarcasm is the best I can offer I'm afraid, I'm not a political animal, just someone who wont vote for someone I don't know, don't trust, don't respect, don't believe and don't think has a clue what's going on from one week to the next.

[Charlotte]

I repeat Chris Wilsons earlier post re your clip.

 

I also have a very good clip about alan sugar and the apprentice... Remind me to post that up. Lots of out of context clips by a person with a very polar opinion.

 

I recommend you watch "BNP exposed" - The Secret Agent. It's a bbc documentary shot in Bradford, following the party - it's in parts on youtube. It's from a few years ago but most of the high profile members are the same. Very eye opening IMO.

[RedM]

I recommend you watch "BNP exposed" - The Secret Agent. It's a bbc documentary shot in Bradford, following the party - it's in parts on youtube. It's from a few years ago but most of the high profile members are the same. Very eye opening IMO.

 

Give it up, Charlotte. Any criticism of the BNP is just the naughty tree-huggers working to their own agenda. People won't believe that the BNP are bad until they're prisoners in their own homes and are hoping that people like Mike can remain free and find a way to free them from tyranny.

 

Or something.

[Ewen]

Let's gloss over the reality that we don't have true democracy only the illusion of it.

 

I think there needs to be a system of voter eduction and compulsory voting. Make people read the arguments for and against ALL the parties and also educate them as to what party policies mean for the future of the country in general.

 

Assuming that we have some way of measuring that Voter X is making an informed decision with a lot of thought behind it then, if we do end up with a fascist state, so be it.

Who would do the educating though...someone who is politically ambivalent...a non-voter ?

[Ewen]

BTW, for the record, I hate the BNP and all (in my limited understanding) it stands for. However, I'm home after a similar topic at work resulted in 'people like me' (non-voters) being blamed for (sarcasm) BNP gaining power. Bollocks. If I was remotely political, I'd blame the current corrupt government, and their equally corrupt competition.

[marbleapple]

Give it up, Charlotte. Any criticism of the BNP is just the naughty tree-huggers working to their own agenda. People won't believe that the BNP are bad until they're prisoners in their own homes and are hoping that people like Mike can remain free and find a way to free them from tyranny.

 

Or something.

 

Can you clarify where I have said I am in support of the BNP please? Did I vote for them? - no, have I said I love them or even said I agree with their policies? - I think you find I posted about 6 pages ago that immigration was not a bad thing. I keep stating that I am not in support for them.

 

Your part of the problem in my opinion. Your so scared of opinions different to your own you try shoot down the other poster. Charlotte at least informs ether than criticises.

 

Charlotte I watched it when it first came out. I thought it bad then and I still do. But then if the programme made them look good it would not have been on TV.

[marbleapple]

Who would do the educating though...someone who is politically ambivalent...a non-voter ?

 

Good point.

 

The only people who would care enough are those who fall out over 10 Pages on a forum and they are usually biased.

 

I am interested in why Rorscharch thinks we don't have a democracy though (not disagreeing with him

Either) . I personally thinks we are sheep to the media.

[RedM]

Can you clarify where I have said I am in support of the BNP please? Did I vote for them? - no, have I said I love them or even said I agree with their policies? - I think you find I posted about 6 pages ago that immigration was not a bad thing. I keep stating that I am not in support for them.

 

Your part of the problem in my opinion. Your so scared of opinions different to your own you try shoot down the other poster. Charlotte at least informs ether than criticises. .

 

I wasn't referencing you at all, Mr. Defensive.

 

..and the only thing that scares me is that we let stupid people steer us down a very bad path. Other peoples opinions don't scare me. Being scared of where those opinions/ideologies will lead is fine though and perfectly natural.

 

You'd probably find my view on how we should all live to be so far outside of your comfort zone as to be genuinely scary. I accept that my preferred world will likely never happen so I do what I can as best I can according to those views. I also make sure I don't confuse someone making an alternative argument with someone who is merely criticising.

 

Time for bed now though.

[marbleapple]

I wasn't referencing you at all, Mr. Defensive.

 

..and the only thing that scares me is that we let stupid people steer us down a very bad path. Other peoples opinions don't scare me. Being scared of where those opinions/ideologies will lead is fine though and perfectly natural.

 

You'd probably find my view on how we should all live to be so far outside of your comfort zone as to be genuinely scary. I accept that my preferred world will likely never happen so I do what I can as best I can according to those views. I also make sure I don't confuse someone making an alternative argument with someone who is merely criticising.

 

Time for bed now though.

 

Fair enough, I thought it was directed at me as you told Charlotte not to bother responding to my post. I apologise if I was mistaken

[RedM]

Good point.

 

The only people who would care enough are those who fall out over 10 Pages on a forum and they are usually biased.

 

Dear God or any other non-denominational entity. If we must have a ruling elite then please lets make sure we care enough about who is ruling and why. Apathy will be the ruin of us all.

 

I am interested in why Rorscharch thinks we don't have a democracy though (not disagreeing with him

Either) . I personally thinks we are sheep to the media.

 

I'd like to answer but not at this time of night.

[Ewen]

Good point.

 

The only people who would care enough are those who fall out over 10 Pages on a forum and they are usually biased.

 

I am interested in why Rorscharch thinks we don't have a democracy though (not disagreeing with him

Either) . I personally thinks we are sheep to the media.

I don't know. Martins an intelligent, socially aware guy...he's obviously deeper into this stuff than many, and has formed his opinions based what he considers sufficient information. Not all of us are or do, but we can still vote. If we want to.

[Ewen]

Oh, and I find it interesting that the Queen or any other members of the Royal Family don't vote, so as not to impart any notion of allegiance to any particular party. Not even to keep BNP from gaining a seat or two. There's a far stronger message there than any post on here I'd surmise, if I were in any form politically minded.

[caseys]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

 

Nothing like a good egg(ing).

[JustGav]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

 

Nothing like a good egg(ing).

 

I'm not a supporter of the BNP or most mainline political parties, good I've covered that point.

 

HOWEVER, regardless of people's views, people should be able to have a news conference without this sort of behaviour. Isn't the suppression of alternative political ideas against democracy??

 

Lets stoke the fire a bit... how is their behaviour in principle any different from Robert Mugabe suppressing the alternative parties in Zimbabwe?? (And I really don't like mugabe either )

[caseys]

HOWEVER, regardless of people's views, people should be able to have a news conference without this sort of behaviour. Isn't the suppression of alternative political ideas against democracy??

 

Lets stoke the fire a bit... how is their behaviour in principle any different from Robert Mugabe suppressing the alternative parties in Zimbabwe?? (And I really don't like mugabe either )

 

I was trying not to weigh in on the debate here but...

 

Would you really just walk on by if there was a Politician speaking outside Parliament for a party that promoted something completely amoral to you? (for instance putting babies on spikes, or burning all Christians if you were a Christian, or deporting every person from the Isle of Wight. Or having to live on an all cheese diet).

 

I'd put that down as incitement really if it was victimising or singling out people due to either physical (race by birth, or place of birth) or mental viewpoint (religion / veganism).

 

If you can quite frankly sit there calmly and not be stirred by someone preaching everything you morally stand against then maybe you're a better person than I. Yes I know it's sort of mild-case vigilantism.

 

I will say though I'd have posted that if it was any Political figure being egged. I like a good egging

 

EDIT : Quite frankly if you're out in public spouting your views, expect the public to react. Otherwise do it somewhere a bit more secure.

 

Same as I always want to stand next to the people in the town square preaching about that Jeebus bloke and play some Cradle of Filth or such right next to them They have their views, I have my views. I don't want others rammed down my throat in public. Whatever happened to just being able to sit in town and enjoy the sun and birds..?

 

EDIT 2 : I can't believe Mugabe gets away with everything he has done though, crippling his nation. I also can't believe that the Opposition party PM's wife was just killed in a freak road accident a little while ago.

 

That I agree, is somewhere where the UN really should step in.

[Gaz6002]

If you can quite frankly sit there calmly and not be stirred by someone preaching everything you morally stand against then maybe you're a better person than I. Yes I know it's sort of mild-case vigilantism.

 

So you have been actively protesting about the unlawful killings in Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe? Good work!

[JustGav]

I was trying not to weigh in on the debate here but...

 

Would you really just walk on by if there was a Politician speaking outside Parliament for a party that promoted something completely amoral to you? (for instance putting babies on spikes, or burning all Christians if you were a Christian, or deporting every person from the Isle of Wight. Or having to live on an all cheese diet).

I'm hopefully not going to get dragged in either hence the reason I'm staying a-political on this one.

 

You raise a fair point, although staking babies the jury is still out

 

I'd put that down as incitement really if it was victimising or singling out people due to either physical (race by birth, or place of birth) or mental viewpoint (religion / veganism).

 

If you can quite frankly sit there calmly and not be stirred by someone preaching everything you morally stand against then maybe you're a better person than I. Yes I know it's sort of mild-case vigilantism.

 

Oh, I'm not in the slightest and I have some very interesting and strong views which I won't share here purely for the sake that I don't want to get burnt at the stake either... Any eggs being chucked at me I'd like to request they are still in the box so I can cook with them

 

I will say though I'd have posted that if it was any Political figure being egged. I like a good egging

 

Quite frankly if you're out in public spouting your views, expect the public to react. Otherwise do it somewhere a bit more secure.

 

Same as I always want to stand next to the people in the town square preaching about that Jeebus bloke and play some Cradle of Filth or such right next to them They have their views, I have my views. I don't want others rammed down my throat in public.

 

True, however isn't our jaded view of democracy, the right for people to promote/preach their view point, whether we agree with it or not.

 

As far as the bloke spouting religion, I'm with you brother....halleluah, and believe brother

[caseys]

So you have been actively protesting about the unlawful killings in Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe? Good work!

 

I donate money where I can for charities and schemes I have thought worthwhile. I donate money to Amnesty International, I have also signed protests against such acts like the atrocities going on in Zimbabwe, and think the Polio outbreak is shocking.

 

I was in fact in London in Parliament square a few weeks ago watching the Tamil protests as an observer. No viewpoint, but I like to know what's going on in the world. (then I got dragged to the London X-Factor auditions... )

 

Whilst I don't have the time to be a philanthropist, I truly wish I did. I am not saying I am a saint or full of virtue and know there are people in far far far worse situations than I, so I am greatful every day for what I have and when I do have some spare time, or spare money I do try sometimes to at least raise aid where I can.

 

If you're quite willing to pay me my wages in lieu so I can have my family fed and looked after, I'd be quite happy to go over to some of these places and be an aid worker for a while.

[caseys]

 

Oh, I'm not in the slightest and I have some very interesting and strong views which I won't share here purely for the sake that I don't want to get burnt at the stake either... Any eggs being chucked at me I'd like to request they are still in the box so I can cook with them

 

 

See that's where I don't get it. Why not boil the eggs first? In fact, why normal chicken eggs? You seen the size of Ostrich/Penguin eggs? My god... a hard boiled one of them could do some damage. Soft boiled would be the best of both worlds though, gooey and also sort of a biological frag-grenade.

 

True, however isn't our jaded view of democracy, the right for people to promote/preach their view point, whether we agree with it or not.

 

I still go with the every action has an equal and opposite reaction law of the universe. Sprout and expect to have a reaction. Act, expect a reaction. Everyone can stand on soap box corner, many choose not to. Just don't expect a sea of calm if you're preaching/promoting a radical viewpoint from the current social norm.

 

As far as the bloke spouting religion, I'm with you brother....halleluah, and believe brother

 

I have the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on my desk. I'm thinking of taking up Pastafarianism and preaching it down town. Free beer in heaven... mmm.

[Mike]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

 

Nothing like a good egg(ing).

 

That was great