rant Sunday trading laws

[extendor]

The Sunday Trading Act 1994 limits shop opening hours of “large shops”. A “large shop” is defined by the size of the internal retail area i.e. the part of the shop building that is open to the public & used for the sale of goods. The Act ignores any external or open display, such as may be found in garden centres/DIY stores and also ignores storage, office and other non retail sale areas, and only applies to the sale of goods, not services. The sale of meals, refreshments and intoxicating liquors on or off the premises is also exempted.

A “large shop” is one with an enclosed sales area exceeding 280 sq m/ 3,000 sq ft

There are no Sunday trading restrictions on shops smaller than this.(i.e. shops not exceeding 280sq m/ 3,000 sq ft of enclosed sales area.

A “large shop” are subject to the following restrictions on Sunday opening:

• They may open for a maximum of 6 consecutive hours, between 10am and 6pm

• They must not open on Easter Sunday

• They must not open on Christmas Day when it falls on a Sunday

 

Thank you, I was looking for this. The point is - it is a few hours here and there and makes absolutely no difference to the vast majority of people who get their lives in order and plan around it. The convenience the shopper wants is far more of an inconvenience to the shop keeper and the staff and prevents them from having some useful and valuable time off.

 

The world will not stop just because some people cant get their life in order and go without a packet of crisps on a Sunday afternoon. Perhaps I am wrong - does the urge to consume trump all else.

[Guest willismaximus]

Thought i'd stick my two-pence worth in, i've worked in retail before and can honestly say that the idea of working throughout the weekend did not bother me in the slightest, in fact I for one preferred it as it meant I had my days off during the week and could get things done so much quicker due to anyone working an office job being behind a desk somewhere and generally out of my way. I now work in an office and this, if anything makes me wish for longer trading hours at the weekend even more as I generally tend to be out the house for work at about 7am and won't get home till around 6.30pm and i'm knackered so I can't be bothered to shop during the week and even if I wanted to I have to be fairly quick. The upshot of this is that I don't enjoy my Saturday as I feel like I have to get everything done in the one day as things like the post-office, banks etc don't do Sundays.

 

Yes i'm aware that this is about my own personal wants, but is that wrong? I WANT to be able to relax all weekend without ruining an entire precious day running around town getting things done, I want to be able to spread my errands across two days thus relieving myself of the problem I currently have of if I don't have time to get a parcel to the post office on a Saturday because i'm so busy getting everything done, I have to wait till the following Saturday to send it....

 

And if I wanted to throw my toys out the pram and really start to stamp my feet..... these Sunday trading laws are all based around religeous beliefs that Sunday is the day of rest..... well I may have been born a Roman Catholic but I had no choice in that, as an adult I choose to believe religion is a load of b*11*cks (My own personal opinion, not trying to upset anyone who is religious ) so why is it that my life is governed by other people's beliefs? In a modern society which is so obsessed with not upsetting anyone elses belief systems when it comes to childrens school uniforms, peoples work dress, what nursery rhymes we can teach our children etc etc, why is it that my belief, that there is no such thing as an omnipotent being looking after us all, is completely disregarded as if I just don't count?

 

I'm not allowed to shop on a Sunday at 7pm not because the shops CHOOSE to close at this hour but because they are forced to by an outdated law that was originally based on religious teachings about Sunday being a day of rest that I personally don't believe.... talk about forcing beliefs onto people.... if there was no law regarding Sunday trading hours and shops CHOSE to close early then fair enough but at the minute there closing times are dictated to them and I personally feel we are told what to do and what not to do far more than we should be.....

 

Rant over LOL

[Franko]

you could all just move to Scotland and save yourself the trouble?

[extendor]

In retail you are often the lowest paid and least secure member of the workforce. In the never ending quest to drop costs and maximise profite the labour force often carries the can with unsocial hours and onerous demands on their time and a belligerent attitude of the employer who very often gives no quarter and tells you when and what you will do and at what rate they would pay.

 

It is no surprise that very many people work in retail because they often have no choice, often no other option as unskilled or desperate for money. Many people in retail are working to make ends meet and have other jobs or spouses with more regular hours.

 

The Sunday trading laws are founded on good social sense. If we as consumers cannot get our act together then it says that we consider ourselves more important than the next guy and that is very selfish.

 

Put yourself in the other persons shoes for a minute.

 

Be that mum who works a second job and leaves the kids at home and who would never get a chance for a break if the law did not force her employer to close for a couple of hours on one day of the week.

 

Be that young lad who wants to go home to see his parents over Christmas and cant do it because he has to get to work on Boxing Day and the trains don't run.

 

Now if you can't see this then you have to tell me because the world I want to live in is a little less selfish and has nothing to do with being an old git but more to do with occassionally thinking of others.

[Paul]

you could all just move to Scotland and save yourself the trouble?

 

Cause there's no money or shops oop North

[marbleapple]

Its a Christian country and Sunday is meant to be a rest day. Most of our laws are based on Christian principles.

 

If you don't like it you could try moving country....I hear Iran, Iraq, and a few other countries are not Christian countries..... but then you might find your liberties more constricted over there than here.

[Guest willismaximus]

I get that it's a Christian country and all but at the end of the day there should be an element of choice or you're just using religion as a pretence to control everyones buying habits.

 

Even the church doesn't really buy into the whole 'Day of rest' thing because if they did, then why do they ask you to get out of bed on a Sunday morning to attend mass???? My idea of resting is lying in till yon time

[Guest willismaximus]

The problem with discussions like this is that everyone has their own personal opinions about how they feel working weekends etc which effectively colours their view on the subject but not everyone has had to do it, when I worked retail I also worked in a bar so I get the argument about people wanting to see family etc but I personally didn't mind and at the end of the day there are always going to be enough people like me who don't mind working weekends to offset against those that would rather work mid-week so most of the time, everyone's happy.

[TLicense]

In retail you are often... blah blah blah....

 

I'm lucky because I'm salaried, but my girlfriend is hourly paid, and you could argue is in the retail sector of sorts. She's been offered a couple more hours a week and took it. Why? Because unless you're particularly priviledged then most people will find the money particularly useful. For most that far outweigh's the niceties of being able to have a bit more of a relaxing time at home.

Luckily we've not been directly effected by the credit crunch in a negative way but I could imagine for some families the additional income that something like relaxed Sunday laws would bring would be very welcome.

 

As you mentioned, those in the retail sector are often the lowest paid and lowest qualified. I think you'll find those who are in that group and are struggling to make ends meet are more likely to want the opportunity to earn rather than sit at home.

 

Life for some isn't a rose tinted episode of "The Darling Buds Of May" y'know.

[RedM]

As you mentioned, those in the retail sector are often the lowest paid and lowest qualified. I think you'll find those who are in that group and are struggling to make ends meet are more likely to want the opportunity to earn rather than sit at home.

 

So give 'em more hours to make sure that they are there to serve people with more money than they have.

[TLicense]

Oh c'mon....

 

Oh OK yeah you win. I'm just some overprivilidged toff with no clue who thinks that everyone else is here to serve me.

 

Let them eat cake I say.

[Guest willismaximus]

Harsh as it sounds.... yes.... unfortunately this is the way of the world, those with money are not always the ones that deserve it and those that do deserve it quite often don't have it.

 

Real life is generally unfair like that, it shouldn't be, but it is.

[Guest willismaximus]

And just so you know, i'm not a rich, I don't earn a large salary etc and I genuinely struggle from month to month to the point that i'm considering harking back to my younger days of working two jobs in order to keep my lifestyle the way it is. I'm merely making a statement about the way life tends to be.

[extendor]

I suppose a forum frequented by people that think nothing of spending their free cash on a 3litre car that drinks petrol at £5 a gallon and probably think nothing of spending a grand on set of alloys and tyres is the wrong place to talk about those workers who have no choice and get a crappy deal in their lives and rely on the law to look after their interests.

 

I am sure there are a few members out their bricking themselves at the prospect of redundancy and the bailiffs knocking on their door to take away their home or their car. Think on peeps. When you have no choices and are working like a dog and are forced to sign crappy contracts and book holidays two years in advance and don't get sick pay and then work whatever days your employer says, this thread will have some relevance.

[Pete]

My Dad was a Woolworths manager for most of his career, ended up retiring early a few years ago due to ill health. Basically he was cracking up due to the stresses of running a shop with little support and difficult targets to hit (which he regularly beat and was top in the district).

 

As a kid I didn't see much of him around the retail seasons (Christmas, Easter, other national holidays). No, it wasn't that I was a little b@stard, it was because he'd have to work late most nights and weekends.

I distinctly remember how it used to be when I was much younger and he'd do one late night and Saturdays - then through the years it came to Sunday opening, then more late nights in the week, opening until 22:00 etc. etc. It just got more and more as the fat cats got more and more greedy.

That's what it's all about at the end of the day - greed.

 

No surprise that all he got for his many years loyalty and hard work was a nervous breakdown in the end.

 

That's why I dislike retail and why I believe people should reprioritise to spend quality time with their loved ones rather than a trip to Tescos / Homebase / Next on a Sunday.

 

 

 

Think on peeps. When you have no choices and are working like a dog and are forced to sign crappy contracts and book holidays two years in advance and don't get sick pay and then work whatever days your employer says, this thread will have some relevance.

I really don't understand what you're saying here at all?

[Guest willismaximus]

I suppose a forum frequented by people that think nothing of spending their free cash on a 3litre car that drinks petrol at £5 a gallon and probably think nothing of spending a grand on set of alloys and tyres is the wrong place to talk about those workers who have no choice and get a crappy deal in their lives and rely on the law to look after their interests.

 

I am sure there are a few members out their bricking themselves at the prospect of redundancy and the bailiffs knocking on their door to take away their home or their car. Think on peeps. When you have no choices and are working like a dog and are forced to sign crappy contracts and book holidays two years in advance and don't get sick pay and then work whatever days your employer says, this thread will have some relevance.

 

 

And therein lies my point.... thats exactly what I do, granted i'm lucky that I still have a job but my role was at threat and has been for the last 6-7 months so i'm no stranger to 'Bricking it', i've only recently been given confirmation that I am now safe and as for the hours, i'm on a flexi contract which means I work whenever the company tells me to and that includes Saturdays and Sundays and the Sunday trading rule doesn't apply to call centres so I already work outside of those hours and have done with every single job I have had since leaving school and even when I found myself not needed to work the weekends I regulary volunteered for overtime because I needed the money and didn't mind doing it. It's only the last year that i've found myself in a position to be able to afford a car like a Supra but even now I struggle to maintain and run it due to my financial circumstances.

 

But all of this is the reason why I think the laws should be relaxed a little because people like me don't mind working that bit harder or that bit longer to get the extra money they need to spoil themselves or to try and buy themselves something nice.... in summary...

[wantasupra]

In retail you are often the lowest paid and least secure member of the workforce. In the never ending quest to drop costs and maximise profite the labour force often carries the can with unsocial hours and onerous demands on their time and a belligerent attitude of the employer who very often gives no quarter and tells you when and what you will do and at what rate they would pay.

 

It is no surprise that very many people work in retail because they often have no choice, often no other option as unskilled or desperate for money. Many people in retail are working to make ends meet and have other jobs or spouses with more regular hours.

 

not all of us are unskilled, im a baker and work for a large retail

chain, pay is pretty good. no travel expence, walk to work.

and sales are up up up, due to people not eating out as much.

get 3% of my years wages next month for doing well.

[marbleapple]

I get that it's a Christian country and all but at the end of the day there should be an element of choice or you're just using religion as a pretence to control everyones buying habits.

 

500 years ago ASDA was going strong!

 

Shopping for the masses is a relatively new thing. Why should shopping force against the religious beliefs that underpin society?

 

Like it or not, most of our laws and our social beliefs are based on present and past Christian religious beliefs. Why is it wrong to rape or kill? - Because the law says so.... where did the law come from?.... opinion based solely on the belief systems of the law makers which were prevelent when the law was introduced.... which primarily originated from religious teachings.

 

Even the church doesn't really buy into the whole 'Day of rest' thing because if they did, then why do they ask you to get out of bed on a Sunday morning to attend mass???? My idea of resting is lying in till yon time

 

Oh dear....

 

The idea was that the 7th day as the 'holiest' (sp?) of days and should be spend thanking God. You were not meant to do anything other than worship him. It wasn't the church's excuse for the priests to have a lie in.

 

Go read the story of creation as per the bible....

 

Daft as it sounds, if people read the bible or went to church they might learn a huge amount of why things are the way they are in the world....

 

 

It just got more and more as the fat cats got more and more greedy.

That's what it's all about at the end of the day - greed.

 

 

Thats a Capitalist society for you. The problem is that a Communist society doesnt appear to work either.

 

You go back 100 or even 60 years and there wouldn't even be a discussion about opening times. People seemed to be less gready back then. I suppose it was due to the WW's and rationing etc... my grandma had never tasted a banana (the fruit) until the 1950's..... we are so lucky and don't even realise.

[RedM]

Daft as it sounds, if people read the bible or went to church they might learn a huge amount of why things are the way they are in the world....

 

Like wars?

[extendor]

I really don't understand what you're saying here at all?

 

Fair point, its a few jumps ahead in my own mind as well. First of all thank you for the earlier reply. That puts some perspective on it and although it is not a unique tale it is still very distressing.

 

Not everyone is a model employer and there are still a great number who are not bad but who take liberties.

 

Many employers are motivated by targets, profits, absenteism rates and screwing every last hour out of their employees. This leads to horrendous employment contracts and erosion of freedom of choice for the employee by the necessity to survive and keep a job. The employment market is changing, full time jobs are rare, fixed term contracts are the norm, the employee has less and less rights. Take for example the contracts stating you have to give two years notice to book a holiday or two months to arrange a day off. Very few employers pay overtime and yet expect it as the norm - for free!!!!!!! Statutory sick pay is a joke and that is all most employers will pay. Gone are the good pensions and perks.

 

Sunday trading might be steeped in a Christian culture but its relevance and that of many employment laws is more about protecting those that can't protect themselves.

[TLicense]

lol.

 

Soooo how many of you guys have gone to the pub on a Sunday evening then? If anything the service sector is even worse paid than the retail sector.

When I was in my mid to late teens I worked in a hotel where some of the staff were effectively being paid 75p an hour. That wasn't in Extendor's boyhood days but in the mid 90's.

They got away with it as they were paying the live in staff a wage and then deducting an accomodation allowance. Then they would deduct a food allowance. Then they had them work from 5:30 in the morning through till gone midnight.

I bet every person on here has been to a restaurant on a Sunday evening, or had the staff in a pub waiting whilst you finish that last bit of a pint come closing time.

Yet that's OK. Why so? Isn't it the little person you stiffing?

[RedM]

I bet every person on here has been to a restaurant on a Sunday evening, or had the staff in a pub waiting whilst you finish that last bit of a pint come closing time.

 

How much do you bet? I know at least one person for whom that is not true.

 

[extendor]

lol.

 

Soooo how many of you guys have gone to the pub on a Sunday evening then? If anything the service sector is even worse paid than the retail sector.

When I was in my mid to late teens I worked in a hotel where some of the staff were effectively being paid 75p an hour. That wasn't in Extendor's boyhood days but in the mid 90's.

They got away with it as they were paying the live in staff a wage and then deducting an accomodation allowance. Then they would deduct a food allowance. Then they had them work from 5:30 in the morning through till gone midnight.

I bet every person on here has been to a restaurant on a Sunday evening, or had the staff in a pub waiting whilst you finish that last bit of a pint come closing time.

Yet that's OK. Why so? Isn't it the little person you stiffing?

 

In some respects I agree the service sector is bad and once again it is those that can do least about it that get shafted. I will say though that I have felt guilty about that particular situation but I did give the staff a tip which by your reconning was more than their nights wages - in cash in their hand and not on the ticket. I never ever add a tip to the bill and always give directly to the waiter/ess and say to split it with the kitchen staff.

 

However, I am a little bit worried by your example. In earlier posts you would have argued that this was just economic forces and sod them because they should do it because you the customer was right and they were there to serve you. Seems like some of my message may have got home to you.

[marbleapple]

Like wars?

 

Yes.

 

Was there an intended point to that comment or are you just supporting my point that if you know a little about religion it explains a lot about the present?

[jamesmark]

Yes.

 

Was there an intended point to that comment or are you just supporting my point that if you know a little about religion it explains a lot about the present?

 

I think joined after the Chiefgroover days.