AlexJames Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 lol close, "....So now who ever believes in him, now will not die but shall have eternal life" John 3:16 What a great bit of marketing. Join us and never die. probably just the same as die for us and have seventy virgins. I wonder what a modern ad agency would come up with. probably something with a more commercial emphasis. eg. Worship at asda and shop for evermore for free in the afterlife. Believe in me and never die is "VERY FAR" from join us and die for us... Seriously? Christianity suggests that ALL life is destined to go to hell, just through the natural order of things; you live for a few years, then your soul burns forever in eternal tourment! But god created this whole thing so he must have designed this little caveat into the process from the start. Then suddenly wahey some bloke happens to have come along and can save us all if we just agree to follow him in everything we do in those short years! Sounds more and more like fascism to me - now you're here you've got a pretty crappy choice; you can follow me or die horribly screaming in pain. Nice. Yes, God did make hell as well, and the reason is not so that the devil can rule there... hell is made to contain the devil at the end of time. Basically the reason for hell is... God has always given us a choice.. adam and eve had a choice, even lucifer had a choice.. we have a choice... if we didnt then it would look like God is MAKING us follow him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 OK, not sure how we got from Ouija boards to God, but.. I always thought Christians believed that 'we are in hell' now..? and that we have to prove ourselves here to move on? or we're reincarnated and continue to live here or something? Yep, it's insane... but just a straight 'belief in god' is a little off the wall for me in this day and age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I don't believe Christianity is where we came from. In fact, quite the opposite. Christianity has been detrimental IMO, and is the cause of so much close-mindedness and lack of progress in the world today. OK, what I mean by saying "it's where we came from" is this: The modern world didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Just as technologies evolve from what has gone before and every living thing, so have societies, economic systems, art, music and crucially, ideas and moral systems. Each generation didn't dream up its own moral and intellectual framework, it borrowed and built upon what was there before. You would be hard pressed to find a single greater influence on our history than Christianity. That's mostly where any interest I have in Christianity comes from, because the more history you read, the more you realise that it's been at the core of Western thought since the Romans disseminated it in the 4th century. Even the sceptical, questioning attitude that we share is a product of Christianity. Monks and christian thinkers kept the spirit of enquiry and scholarship alive through the dark ages. The church's enthusiasm for the classical world helped the Enlightenment scholars rediscover the rational thinking of the Greeks. And the fact that the church was so powerful gave them something to form a movement against. Just like you can't have communism without an oppressive Tsarist state, you can't have the enlightenment without mother church. Modern scepticism goes in a direct line back to there. It's also no coincidence that the Christian world became the most technologically advanced and has subsequently exported that technology to all the other countries, rather than the other way around. Historians now generally view the relationship between Christianity and Science as quite a benign and constructive one (Alistair McGrath writes about this at length in 'The Twilight (?) of Atheism). Gallileo aside, the origins of Science/religion antipathy are largely a 19th century thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 lol close, "....So now who ever believes in him, now will not die but shall have eternal life" John 3:16 What a great bit of marketing. Join us and never die. probably just the same as die for us and have seventy virgins. I wonder what a modern ad agency would come up with. probably something with a more commercial emphasis. eg. Worship at asda and shop for evermore for free in the afterlife. Funny you should say that. There's a really, really good programme by philosopher Alain de Botton called 'Status Anxiety'. He challenges an ad agency to produce a Christian, anti-worldly, anti-commercial message, which they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Seriously? Christianity suggests that ALL life is destined to go to hell, just through the natural order of things; you live for a few years, then your soul burns forever in eternal tourment! But god created this whole thing so he must have designed this little caveat into the process from the start. Then suddenly wahey some bloke happens to have come along and can save us all if we just agree to follow him in everything we do in those short years! Sounds more and more like fascism to me - now you're here you've got a pretty crappy choice; you can follow me or die horribly screaming in pain. Nice. As I understand it, not all Christians believe in hell. A lot go for a more benign view of the universe, which is that you will either 'be with God' or 'not be with God'. But the 'not being with God' doesn't, for some, entail eternal damnation...it's a more a case of missing out on something really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Funny you should say that. There's a really, really good programme by philosopher Alain de Botton called 'Status Anxiety'. He challenges an ad agency to produce a Christian, anti-worldly, anti-commercial message, which they do. I will check that out. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I always thought Christians believed that 'we are in hell' now..? and that we have to prove ourselves here to move on? or we're reincarnated and continue to live here or something? You're getting your Buddhism and Christianity mixed up, Mike you f***ing heathen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Yep, it's insane... but just a straight 'belief in god' is a little off the wall for me in this day and age But do you believe in a supreme being. Would you say there is someone/thing out there that is 'greater'than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 As I understand it, not all Christians believe in hell. A lot go for a more benign view of the universe, which is that you will either 'be with God' or 'not be with God'. But the 'not being with God' doesn't, for some, entail eternal damnation...it's a more a case of missing out on something really good. I think if someone calls them selves a Christian and doesn't believe in hell, hasnt read their bible lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 You're getting your Buddhism and Christianity mixed up, Mike you f***ing heathen. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I think if someone calls them selves a Christian and doesn't believe in hell, hasnt read their bible lol Well, I'm certainly not qualified to argue what the Bible has to say on the subject. But I have talked to Christians who do read their Bibles and don't believe in hell in the sense that I think you do. Just like some Christians read their Bible and believe that God literally created the universe in seven days and other Christians don't. I have a book somewhere on the history of hell and recall that the meaning of the word has changed a lot since the gospels. So it may be, and I'm speculating here, that the word is subject to some interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Isn't Hell other people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Isn't Hell other people? Sartre? Camus? Kierkegaard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 sartre? Camus? Kierkegaard? Brown, Blair, Darling, Blears etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 Sartre? Camus? Kierkegaard? That would be Sartre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Brown, Blair, Darling, Blears etc I would tend to agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 There is one absolutely MASSIVE flaw in the bible. Man wrote it. The bible is meant to be used as a guide to good humanity, not taken as "gospel". I've noticed a lot of people who are religious use different descriptions of the writings to their advantage. For example.... "Created the earth in 7 days".... oh, that’s a metaphor etc etc. Yet other things are to be taken literally. Its a tool for pushers IMO. At the end of the day, 'we' wrote the bible. How the writing of the bible came about is irrelevant. Don't believe whats on a page, believe whats in your heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonkin Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Does this thread win a prize for 'deepest' of the year Or one for most off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Or one for most off topic I've already explained the ouija board in post #69 though, so we've moved on to something harder to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I've already explained the ouija board in post #69 though, so we've moved on to something harder to explain. It's much easier, it's just the customers are harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonkin Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I've already explained the ouija board in post #69 though, so we've moved on to something harder to explain. Ok, i'll catch up. To be fair i think your explanation summed it up the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Ok, i'll catch up. To be fair i think your explanation summed it up the best They all subconsciously co operated to push it. Spoooooooky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathew Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 why cant god be contacted as easily as all these spirits? anyone read derren brown's trick of the mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 derren brown's Never heard of him mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Derren Brown is a unique force in the world of illusion - he can seemingly predict and control human behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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