Going to look at a car.... what to watch out for.

[kill1308]

Hi guys,

 

I have a couple of 'newbie' questions if you don't mind.

 

Going to look a 6 speed 94 Supra TT priced at £7.5k, it looks in good condition. The only thing worrying me is the mileage, it's done 89000... I tend to get worried when buying higher mileage cars, now from what I've rea, I know the Supra is pretty reliable but is there anything in particular at this age that should have already been changed or is likely to be in bad condition?

 

I'm reasonably mechanically minded just don't know a lot about supras yet (I'm reading as much as poss), I'm just dubious about the mileage, I'm sure it's my over-active mind worrying, but Ideally I was looking for one with lower mileage but this one looks like it might turn out to be a good one.

 

Does the price/mileage seem about right?

Thanks in very much in advance for any answers, appreciated, just want to put my mind at rest.

[Lbm]

So on average, the car had done 5933 miles per year. Seems fine to me

[DamanC]

The millage isnt really too much of an issue with supra providing they have been properly serviced. As with any car a FSH is very important.

 

At 89k it probably drives the same as if it did at 1k

[SteveR]

(I'm reading as much as poss)

 

Read this section, but particularly this thread for when you're viewing a car.

 

Ask if a local member will go look at it with you. edit - just realised I'm local! lol. Where's the car & when are you going to see it?

[tony tt]

Check the basic supra guides next to technical mate it will tell you all you need to know on what to look for. I wouldnt worry too much about the mileage as long as its been looked after i bought my tt 6 at 79000mls 3years ago and hasnt missed a beat yet! The price for the mileage seems fine imo.

[kill1308]

Thanks guys, your advice is very much appreciated. That guide looks really helpful I'll have a good read through it, thanks

 

Ask if a local member will go look at it with you. edit - just realised I'm local! lol. Where's the car & when are you going to see it?

 

Thanks for the offer Steve, but the car is miles away, 158 miles to be exact lol, but I guess it's worth driving a good distance to try and get a good one. I'd be taking my mechanic friend with me to check the usual stuff and a to give a good second opinion. Just hoping this one doesn't turn out to be a complete snotter like the others I've looked at recently

 

It's totally stock apart from an aftermarket exhaust which I'm not too worried about.

[SteveR]

Cool well good luck with it nd if you ever want a 2nd opinion on a car closer to Malvern let me know.

My previous Supra was 99.9% stock (boost guage & turbo timer were the only mods). They are awesome cars and teated properly are largely bombproof.

 

BTW have you spoken to the usual car-dealing suspects on here (Jurgen of JM-Imports, Paul from Whifbitz) or looked at their websites? TBH I'm not sure if they have anything you'd be interested in for ~£7.5k but buying from a known quantity can bring added peace of mind.

Also there is tha classifieds section of course. I haven't looked in there for a bit but if a long-standing member puts a car up for sale it's easy to investigate its history and their general attitude for looking after it to date.

 

Best of luck finding one, get to a meet ASAP after getting one (or before - we're not fussy!)

Edited May 6, 2009 by SteveR (see edit history)

[Matt H]

A 94 TT with 98k on the clock.... That's low mileage. Shouldn't be an issue for you. Definately take a look at the basics chart as said though.

[ellis]

Whereabouts is the car? It'll be local to somebody else on here. Pistonheads ad or Autotrader? Can we see??!!

[kill1308]

This is the car on the trader.... thanks very much for the advice peeps, it really is appreciated

 

EDIT : It's done 87k not 89k as I said in my first post.

 

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/TOYOTA+SUPRA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-22-86-240-4294966983-4294967144/advert.action?R=200915332199365&distance=148&postcode=b97+5pn&channel=CARS&make=TOYOTA&model=SUPRA&min_pr=7000&max_pr=8000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=1994&vehicleRegLetter=L

[hadyn]

This is the car on the trader.... thanks very much for the advice peeps, it really is appreciated

 

EDIT : It's done 87k not 89k as I said in my first post.

 

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/TOYOTA+SUPRA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-22-86-240-4294966983-4294967144/advert.action?R=200915332199365&distance=148&postcode=b97+5pn&channel=CARS&make=TOYOTA&model=SUPRA&min_pr=7000&max_pr=8000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=1994&vehicleRegLetter=L

 

Please read this thread:

 

http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=184405&highlight=torque+devon

[kill1308]

Damn it seems I don't have permission to read that unfortunately, I haven't paid to join yet as I didn't see the need until I purchased one.

 

kill1308, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

 

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or a members only section? Please see here for details of what sections are only available to club members.

2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[Lazarus]

Please read this thread:

 

http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=184405&highlight=torque+devon

 

Don't do it!! Mechnically it seems fine, but you'd end up spending a fortune fixing all thats wrong with it bodily, (read my thread linked above) there are plenty of better ones around for the same money (sometimes less).

[Lazarus]

Damn it seems I don't have permission to read that unfortunately, I haven't paid to join yet as I didn't see the need until I purchased one.

 

kill1308, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

 

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or a members only section? Please see here for details of what sections are only available to club members.

2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

 

My thread in members section....

 

Black TT6 in Devon

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Just thought I'd drop a thread in here about a Black TT6 I went to take a look at in Devon today, it's this one...

 

http://www.torque-gt.co.uk/cardetails.php?c=230

 

I'm not gonna make any judgements against the company as I don't know enough about them, the little contact we did have was "straight up" enough tho. However, this car is not in the condition they are advertizing it as, a short e-mail between them and I before travelling down to view it stated "This is a fantastic example with great but subtle upgrades".

 

This is not entirely accurate!! (note the hint of sarcasm).

 

From what I saw of the car mechanically, it was fine. I didn't drive it (we didn't get that far before I walked away) but I did start it and check fluids and stuff and it did appear to have had a recent oil change, didn't check the docs/history (again, didn't get that far) although he did say there was plenty of it and nothing on that front gave me reason to doubt him. It has j-spec brakes and, oddly, no front active spoiler or even a switch for it (I thought all RZ's came with them?) and it wasn't because there was a front mount intercooler, though I can't rule out that there may have been one there previously.

 

But, the pics they show you are incredibly flattering to the point of miss leading...

 

...the interior shot does not show you the door cards, thats because there have been some replacement speakers butchered into them...

 

...the wheels look good in the pics, but they don't look like that now, they've been sprayed a dark graphite grey which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that it was quite clearly done to cover up the bodyfiller that has been used (crudely) to fill in the kerb marks/gouges and this was done with the tyres still on, evidenced by the fact you can still see the polished lip where it turns in to meet the tyre bead and the overspray/poor masking on the tyre...

 

...the car has been resprayed...badly!!.. it would appear that nothing was removed prior, just taped up and its got more orange peel than a jaffa!! since this respray the car has picked up numerous scratches and marks although I will admit to not seeing any dents...well, apart from the one in the drivers side rear quarter which looked like it had been knocked out with the round end of a ball pein hammer from the inside, cracking the surface of the paint on the outside, but perhaps I'm being too harsh, I mean, how could that possibly detract from the cars desirability. ...

 

... now the worst bit, you know how you can just sometimes look at something and think to yourself "somethings wrong here!". I got this when I looked at the back of the car, the tailgate doesn't seem to fit in its hole properly, the panel gaps running down each side were too wide, not by lots but enough to make you wonder. So I opened it... the first thing you notice is the boot carpet is completely rotten, and not just a wet rot, the fibres felt sticky, like there was some sort of chemical in there breaking down the nylon/polyester or what ever man made substance the carpets are made from. lifting the carpet and spare wheel cover/board revealled another mess but mostly it was soaking wet to the point where it had started to induce rust at the bodywork/structural seams, thats when I noticed the back panel was pushed in... yep, this puppy had had a smack!... not a big one, not enough to crease the boot floor, but obviously enough to spread the rear wings a little, hence the increased panel gaps. I looked up at this point and saw the tailgates bottom edge internal surface was rippled and a closer inspection of the outer skin showed telltails of filler under the paint, the fact that the high level brakelight was cracked and insecure didn't help it's case (nor the fact that the rear lights don't fit properly either).

 

Forgot to mention when I was talking about the paint, when they prepped the car for it they did a thorough job of sanding back first, especially where the roof panel drops down into the tailgate appeture, they took it down to bare metal there... Shame they didn't actually get any primer or paint on there after though... yep, you guessed it, the back end of the roof panel has started to rot!

 

There were numerous other little things that would have just bugged the crap out of me, but by this point I'd seen enough, as far as I was concerned the car was only fit for parts and I did make him an offer based on those conditions after explaining to him all the things I'd found. He was addament that the minimum they'd take was £7K, now I'm fully aware that the advertized price of £7495 is still pretty good for a Black TT6 had it been in good nick (hence why I went looking ) but this one is far from good...

 

...and what bugs me the most is I took half a day off work with the loss of a couple of hours extra overtime too, a half tank of gas and five hours of my life to travel down to see "This is a fantastic example blah blah blah..." and it turns out to be a piece of 5hit!!!

 

This is obviously just my opinion, and if you feel that the £7K price is good for you... then go for it... but remember, you've been warned by a fellow member.

[kill1308]

Wow, sounds like an absolutely terrible car !! Really appreciate you posting that up Lazarus, looks like I'm cancelling my day off on Friday to go and see it then! It looks so nice in the pictures too, ah well, guess some things are too good to be true.

 

Damn man I wonder if I'll ever find a good one lol.

 

Again, really appreciate the advice and help here peeps, what a great forum

Edited May 6, 2009 by kill1308 (see edit history)

[Lazarus]

....Really appreciate you posting that up Lazarus...

 

Hey!!! It's official!!! You've all read it and you can't deny it now!!!

 

I've posted something useful on this forum!!!

 

[kill1308]

Hahaha

 

Do you not usually post useful information then?

[Lazarus]

Hahaha

 

Do you not usually post useful information then?

 

Nearly 5 years worth of inane patter, poor jokes and just plain old rubbish.

 

[TNT]

Have you had look in Supra classifieds section?

[kill1308]

Yes TNT I've been watching them like a hawk recently.... seem to keep arriving a bit too late and they end up sold. Will continue my search !

[kill1308]

Nearly 5 years worth of inane patter, poor jokes and just plain old rubbish.

 

 

Haha, sounds a bit like myself.

[SteveR]

Lucky escape kill, nice work Lazarus.

[Guest mike@torque]

We feel we have to defend ourselves and the integrity of this Supra in the light of the post by Lazarus. We were planning to leave this thread without comment as we’re aware how frequently this type of thread, turn into an “internet bunfight”. However in light of a deposit being placed and the customer registering on here we feel the need to answer fully.

 

Whilst we respect your right to give an opinion and help out other members, the highly emotive language used doesn’t in our opinion reflect the condition of the vehicle. We will answer all of your concerns raised below. Please remember though, this car is not new, its 15 years old and has covered 87,000 miles. It’s certainly not unusual for a car of this age/mileage to have had paintwork at some point in its life. We didn’t import this car, it came to us via part exchange. It has had an AA check in 2004, and they commented “Cosmetic paintwork/bodywork has been carried out, considered of a good standard. The car is also clear with HPi. This car has never been in a serious accident, all panels are original. Like many cars on the road it has had some paint at some point, probably for cosmetic reasons.

 

To answer your concerns:

 

...the interior shot does not show you the door cards, thats because there have been some replacement speakers butchered into them...

 

There are some minor marks in the door cards where they have been cut to fit the speakers. Easily fixed with any interior specialist if it bothers you, "butchered" is a little strong.

 

...the wheels look good in the pics, but they don't look like that now, they've been sprayed a dark graphite grey which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that it was quite clearly done to cover up the bodyfiller that has been used (crudely) to fill in the kerb marks/gouges and this was done with the tyres still on, evidenced by the fact you can still see the polished lip where it turns in to meet the tyre bead and the overspray/poor masking on the tyre...

 

The polished outerlips were completely kerbed when the car came to us. Rather than try and doublemask them off, our bodyshop opted to finish the lips in the same colour as the centres. There is no bodyfiller in the alloys, we know full well that it never lasts. We sanded them back and they were primed and painted. They should have removed the tyres but didn’t.

 

...the car has been resprayed...badly!!.. it would appear that nothing was removed prior, just taped up and its got more orange peel than a jaffa!! since this respray the car has picked up numerous scratches and marks although I will admit to not seeing any dents...well, apart from the one in the drivers side rear quarter which looked like it had been knocked out with the round end of a ball pein hammer from the inside, cracking the surface of the paint on the outside, but perhaps I'm being too harsh, I mean, how could that possibly detract from the cars desirability. ...

 

The car has been resprayed, we aren’t trying to hide this. The finish is generally good with a few areas better and some worse than others. There is no evidence of bad masking etc. We can only find one small scratch of note on the bonnet but there are a few other marks consummate with the age and mileage. The paint is cracked on the N/S/R/Q, in a few places. Paintwork is a very subjective thing, what one person is happy with another person may not be. In our opinion the condition is as it should be for a car of its age/mileage.

 

... now the worst bit, you know how you can just sometimes look at something and think to yourself "somethings wrong here!". I got this when I looked at the back of the car, the tailgate doesn't seem to fit in its hole properly, the panel gaps running down each side were too wide, not by lots but enough to make you wonder. So I opened it... the first thing you notice is the boot carpet is completely rotten, and not just a wet rot, the fibres felt sticky, like there was some sort of chemical in there breaking down the nylon/polyester or what ever man made substance the carpets are made from. lifting the carpet and spare wheel cover/board revealled another mess but mostly it was soaking wet to the point where it had started to induce rust at the bodywork/structural seams, thats when I noticed the back panel was pushed in... yep, this puppy had had a smack!... not a big one, not enough to crease the boot floor, but obviously enough to spread the rear wings a little, hence the increased panel gaps. I looked up at this point and saw the tailgates bottom edge internal surface was rippled and a closer inspection of the outer skin showed telltails of filler under the paint, the fact that the high level brakelight was cracked and insecure didn't help it's case (nor the fact that the rear lights don't fit properly either).

 

The tailgate fits just fine, as do the rear lights. The bottom part of the tailgate has been filled/painted at some point, who knows why. It certainly hasn’t been in any kind of substantial rear impact. The boot floor, rear quarters and back panel are all original. Something had been spilt in the boot and the boot carpet has seen better days. We’ve cleaned it out and the boot floor is now fine. The integrity of the structure of the boot floor has not been compromised by this. The back panel has not been pushed in. The rear wings have not been spread at all. This "puppy" has not been in a smack, for all you know the tailgate might have had something dropped on it!

 

Forgot to mention when I was talking about the paint, when they prepped the car for it they did a thorough job of sanding back first, especially where the roof panel drops down into the tailgate appeture, they took it down to bare metal there... Shame they didn't actually get any primer or paint on there after though... yep, you guessed it, the back end of the roof panel has started to rot!

 

The roof panel has not started to rot. There was a small amount of surface rust in the aperture where the roof returns. You generally find, the paint is thin on most hatchbacks in here.

 

There were numerous other little things that would have just bugged the crap out of me, but by this point I'd seen enough, as far as I was concerned the car was only fit for parts and I did make him an offer based on those conditions after explaining to him all the things I'd found. He was addament that the minimum they'd take was £7K, now I'm fully aware that the advertized price of £7495 is still pretty good for a Black TT6 had it been in good nick (hence why I went looking ) but this one is far from good...

 

This car is far better than “only fit for parts” in our opinion. From a dealer, with a warranty, MOT and Tax, we think £7,500 is the market price.

 

...and what bugs me the most is I took half a day off work with the loss of a couple of hours extra overtime too, a half tank of gas and five hours of my life to travel down to see "This is a fantastic example blah blah blah..." and it turns out to be a piece of 5hit!!!

 

What "bugs" us the most is you didn’t have the decency to book an appointment. Apparently you “didn’t have the time” so you just turned up even though you had been clearly asked to book. Condition is a subjective thing, if you consider it to be below your standard that’s fair enough. Your embellished account of this Supra is far from fair to either us or the Supra. We welcome any professional inspection on this car.

 

 

Mike @ Torque GT

[Supradan]

In defense of Torque GT i purchased my last supra from them and, as anyone who saw it can confirm, it was as clean a supra as you are likely to find. My dealings with mike were great and i have and will continue to recommend them to anyone.

If this car is as bad as described then it is prob a one off and not the norm as every car i have seen at torque has been exceptional.

[Lazarus]

I am happy that you have chosen to respond, that is your right in an open forum, you are also correct that this sort of thing would normally degenerate into a bunfight.

 

In an attempt to prevent that I will conceed that my initial post ref the car may have appeared strongly emotive, however my opinion of the cars condition (and defects) hasn't changed.

 

I'm not going to go into tit for tat arguement over every point I raised, suffice to say it would appear that you view the car with your "glass half full", I view it with my "glass half empty" and I know which view would cost me, or any other member, the less in the long run (mine).

 

However, three points I will pick on to discuss further if you wish are these...

 

The tailgate fits just fine, as do the rear lights. The bottom part of the tailgate has been filled/painted at some point, who knows why. It certainly hasn’t been in any kind of substantial rear impact. The boot floor, rear quarters and back panel are all original. ...............The integrity of the structure of the boot floor has not been compromised by this. The back panel has not been pushed in. The rear wings have not been spread at all. This "puppy" has not been in a smack, for all you know the tailgate might have had something dropped on it!

 

I never said the car had been in a substantial rear impact, I clearly stated that the damage was not enough to crease the boot floor in my original post, but never the less that rear panel has been pushed in, beneath the boot rear trim panel, viewed with the spare wheel cover removed it can be clearly seen where the panel has been pushed in (more to the left side than the right), the stuctural integrity of the boot floor had not been compromised by the knock, but by the rust in the seams caused by the moisture let in, due to the now poor panel alignment. (see my comments on rust below)

The taillights are missaligned, viewed from the side or above, the taillight lens should be perfectly aligned with the tailgate skin and sit neatly within the recess of the rear bumper, the taillights in this car do not, especially the righthand one that protrudes back beyond the line of the tailgate skin and does not sit neatly in the bumper recess on that side, probably due to the fact that the tailgate opening lock passes though this lamp, which is firmly attached to the back panel, which is bent.

Mearly dropping something on the tailgate does not ripple the inside skin of the structure, that kind of damage takes something more substantial.

 

The roof panel has not started to rot. There was a small amount of surface rust in the aperture where the roof returns. You generally find, the paint is thin on most hatchbacks in here.

 

I will agree that most cars have thin paint in the recesses. But this is not due to thin paint, this is due to it being rubbed off and not replaced. Rust is rust, it doesn't matter whether it's surface rust or not, once metal starts to oxide the only way to stop it is to cut it out and replace it. It may be possible to "make good" for a short period, maybe even a few years, but rust is like cancer, once it starts you cannot stop it and there is no way to remove it from structural joints or panels short of replacement.

 

What "bugs" us the most is you didn’t have the decency to book an appointment. Apparently you “didn’t have the time” so you just turned up even though you had been clearly asked to book. Condition is a subjective thing, if you consider it to be below your standard that’s fair enough. Your embellished account of this Supra is far from fair to either us or the Supra. We welcome any professional inspection on this car.

 

Didn't have the decency!! We had communicated before I travelled to see the car, you knew I was coming, I had said on the phone that I would give you a bell as I was setting off so you knew what time to expect me. I will conceed that due to the pressure of my own work I forgot to give you that bell and once on the road I didn't think that would be too much of an issue, obviously it was, so appologies for that, but don't try to make it seem that I just turned up unannounced.

 

I also would welcome any independant inspection of this car, even anybody from here, take photo's an post them here also.

 

You advertized this car as a "Fantastic example...", when in fact it is average (bordering poor) at best even considering it's tender age, that is my opinion.

 

However, you seem to now have a buyer, he appears to now be aware of our chalk and cheese opinions, so all that really matters now is his opinion.