2JZ-GE and 2JZ-GTE Differences

[leon]

Bit of a random question but i was sitting at work reading post about people going NA-T and others droping a TT Lump in.

It got me thinking.

 

What Parts are actually the same between the two engines?

for example is the block or the bottom end the same? mybe with different internals?

 

its probably really sad but i thought it was an interesting question.

[NeoFuture]

well the gaskets from a TT fit an NA as they advise fitting them to lower compression for a bigger turbo on the NA-T kit, very interesting question to be honest, would like to know more.

[Chris Wilson]

I'm sure this has been well covered before, they are very different. Rods and cranks are the same, some basic castings are the same. Some pulleys are the same, not much else of importance is the same.

[Terminator]

Using a GT engine to perform like a GTE is always going to be a compromise. The GTE block, when well maintained, is virtually indestructible, even with over 50% more power than the engine was initially designed to deliver, before Toytoa restricted the engine in the MKIV.

[dr_jekyll]

the bottom half is baisicly the same i think , minus some oil jets, but the top half is dfferent , or so iv been lead to beleive.

i also know of people that have transplanted the top half from a gte onto a ge bottom half. so if can mix and match bits from each they cant be to different .

Edited April 24, 2009 by dr_jekyll (see edit history)

[bignum]

Its not a sad question but a question thats been asked many times before;)

[Scott]

GTE has 2 turbo thingy's

[Guest sureshot_james]

these are the differences I know of from doing the swap na to tt

 

Block and heads are different

the differences I know are

oil sqirters on the tt and not on the na

tt has the oil holes in the block drilled and tapped for the oil lines to the turbos

oil pan has several different holes tapped and drilled

the bold pattern on the exhaust are different not sure about intake but most likely different

most of the hangers and parts are the same

 

both blocks have the places for the hole but several of the na's are not drilled/tapped

 

more to follow but this it what I remember now

[Guest proburt]

the gte motor comes with forged internal stock, the oil squirters that spray the bottom of the piston, some additional oil gallys all to combat the aditional power and HEAT generated, also the gte power plant uses a distributorless ignition system so those that have gone Na-t have a big distributor stuffed right in front of the turbo inlet. the gte also runs a lower compression ratio.

 

The gte is for the most part a completely different motor.

[Chris Wilson]

So where are these additional oil galleries? J have never found any. How does an oil gallery combat additional power?? The GTE and GE share the same crank and rods, and neither are forged...

[Guest proburt]

So where are these additional oil galleries? J have never found any. How does an oil gallery combat additional power?? The GTE and GE share the same crank and rods, and neither are forged...

 

I guess I worded that poorly. With more power, more heat is generated, and the oil squirters that are fed by oil gallies not found in the GE motor help to provide aditional lubrication and dicipated some of the heat.

 

As far as the forged internals on the GTE I read that some where, since I cant verify the source take it for what youd like.

 

hope that helps.

[NeoFuture]

proburt

I'm a newbie

 

yup

[Guest proburt]

proburt

I'm a newbie

 

yup

 

Guess if I had 13,000+ posts it would add some credability.

[Jake]

Guess if I had 13,000+ posts it would add some credability.

Not posting bogus 'facts' would add more.

[Chris Wilson]

Not being difficult, but to stop this thread misinforming people in the future, I have to say you are also wrong re the oil squirter gallery. It's the main oil gallery they are fed off, present in both engines.

[Ian C]

Thank you Chris

 

As someone who's seen inside these engines more than most I think your input here is quite valuable. Interesting regarding the crank and rods, basically then, NA engine blocks should be as tough as TT ones as they are the same barring the oil squirters?

 

-Ian

[Chris Wilson]

I did weigh a bare TT and a bare N/A block once and I seem tp recall the N/A one being a bit lighter, so maybe they didn't have the same deck thickness, or something? I know RB26 blocks come in 3 types, the normal production, the heavy duty N1 and the very rare GT blocks (about 5 to 6 thousand quid each) for endurance racing.

[Ian C]

Well considering the cost of a complete NA engine, it might be a viable starting point for a rebuild to single turbo spec with low comp pistons, a TT cylinder head, and oil squirters getting retrofitted. Hmmm.

[Chris Wilson]

Indeed, a cheap way to base a single turbo unit. Retrofitting squirters isn't rocket science, I have done 4A-GE engines and Volvos.

[AlexM]

I've not researched this at all, but are you saying that potentially going from NA > Built Single on a GE could be more viable than going GE > GTE > Single?

[dr_jekyll]

i love reading the technical posts from chris wilson , id love the knowlage of this guy. keep filling us with your helpfull and verry acurate knolwlage .

[Chris Wilson]

Given the current trade price of an N/A, a radical car should be cheapest based on a rot free N/A. You would be binning so much of the vehicle that the base car would be fairly irrelevant. For example, most of the engine internals, the clutch, maybe the gearbox, add a decent spec LSD or complet axle assembly, blah blah. If I were doing a serious project I'd build the engine, clutch and drivetrain first and then buy a really mint car of whatever spec, to nail it all into. These projects get so expensive that the cost of the base car becomes almost trivial.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Chris Wilson (see edit history)

[Nodalmighty]

i love reading the technical posts from chris wilson , id love the knowledge of this guy. keep filling us with your helpful and very accurate knowledge .

 

The main difference between Chris and most other forum users on the interweb is he's gain his knowledge though experience, not wikipedia.

 

There is a chap over on the GTR register who thinks WRC cars ran 16bar of fuel pressure

 

Lyndon.

[Guest proburt]

Not being difficult, but to stop this thread misinforming people in the future, I have to say you are also wrong re the oil squirter gallery. It's the main oil gallery they are fed off, present in both engines.

 

your right the oil gallys are in both, and both do have forged rods. I did a little research of my own, and found a puplication from toyota motor corporation in 1993 that introduces the MKiv explains the differences its almost 260 pages of technical information. here are some of the differnces that were pointed out in the article.

 

Direct ignition system

hot wire mass air flow sensor

grouped exhaust ports in head

sub water jacket exhaust side (head)

Oil gallary in the form of a cast aluminum pipe in the piston

oil jets

different valve timng and lift (cams)

water cooled oil cooler

side feed injecters

jet pump fuel system (in tank)

belt tentioner absorber (manual gearbox)

cam sensors

pull type clutch cover

solid clutch disk

fly wheel damper

larger fuid capacity (auto gearbox)

modified valve body (auto gearbox)

4 layer metal head gasket

offset intake ports

 

wile we are all swinging off chris's nuts

 

heres some good info check it out.

http://97supraturbo.com/Supra%20Scans/New%20MKiV%20Features.pdf

Edited May 6, 2009 by proburt (see edit history)

[Digsy]

wile we are all swinging off chris's nuts

 

 

There's one for the quote book.

 

I hereby propose that in future any reference to doing a job properly, or working from correct and properly researched information is referred to as "swinging off Chris' nuts".