Having this debate at work.

[Al Massey]

Maybe if you're being sniped at from a mile of so, you might have a couple of seconds of the bullet flying through the air. You'd see the flash way before that, but dodge it.. I don't think so.

 

Not true as most sniper rifles dont show a flash as the flash eliminators are really good.

 

if you're up against a .50 and at their operational range then maybe?

 

A .50 callibre bullet doesnt have to make contact to kill.

Anywhere within 1 to 2 metres will rip you apart.

 

 

Just because the muzzle velocity of 9mm is 1100fps doesn't mean it'll travel 1100 feet in 1 second, infact it'll be considerably less.

 

No it will travel 1100feet in 1 second.

That is only 335 metres.

it may not hit the target at that range but it will travel the distance.

[Matt H]

A .50 callibre bullet doesnt have to make contact to kill.

Anywhere within 1 to 2 metres will rip you apart.

 

Hang on, your saying a .50 bullet, if it went past me say 1.5 away it would kill?

[Al Massey]

Hang on, your saying a .50 bullet, if it went past me say 1.5 away it would kill?

 

Yep.

 

Because of the velocity.

If it was to even hit a body armour plate the round will stop dead but the plate will push through your body and exit out the back.

 

I do have some videos somewhere of us firing .50 cal on ranges here and in Iraq.

A very nice weapon indeed

[hogmaw]

Yep.

 

Because of the velocity.

 

So a little bullet flying past you very fast will rip you apart even if it misses you and passes up to 2 metres away from where you're standing. Just because it is going very very fast. Are you sure?

[MrRalphMan]

Not true as most sniper rifles dont show a flash as the flash eliminators are really good.

 

Ah come on give us half a chance...

[MrRalphMan]

So a little bullet flying past you very fast will rip you apart even if it passes up to 2 metres away from where you're standing. Just because it is going very very fast. Are you sure?

 

I don't think they keep their shape, they mushroom into another shape in the air, and .50 Cal, that's not small!!!

[paul mac]

trouble is when you see the flash you would be presuming the projectile is smack on target, what if its not and you move and walk into the round, i would ask one of the armed rozzers at work as they all have Heckler and Koch MP5's but i'm sure they would just laugh at me

[paul mac]

So a little bullet flying past you very fast will rip you apart even if it misses you and passes up to 2 metres away from where you're standing. Just because it is going very very fast. Are you sure?

 

not sure about the distance but yes its the shock wave that goes with it that scramble your inards, victims of this dont have a mark on them

[Al Massey]

So a little bullet flying past you very fast will rip you apart even if it misses you and passes up to 2 metres away from where you're standing. Just because it is going very very fast. Are you sure?

 

100% positive

its what were taught and shown

i have video proof

 

 

I don't think they keep their shape, they mushroom into another shape in the air, and .50 Cal, that's not small!!!

 

True that a .50 cal round aint small but it will keep its shape as all rounds do.

They have too by the geneva convention as if it mushroomed it will cause more damage

and we only shoot to mame and not kill

[Al Massey]

not sure about the distance but yes its the shock wave that goes with it that scramble your inards, victims of this dont have a mark on them

 

Actually it will rip you apart within 1 to 2 metres away from the body

[Kranz]

So a little bullet flying past you very fast will rip you apart even if it misses you and passes up to 2 metres away from where you're standing. Just because it is going very very fast. Are you sure?

 

Yep. The shock wave produced by the round from, say, an AI AW50 will be travelling at about 3000 fps, and weighing in at nearly 50g it will rip through the air leaving a vacuum behind it. The shock wave and vacuum are enough to blow a person apart as the bullet travels past

[Animal]

http://freedomstatesalliance.com/images/compare.jpg

 

The first (smallest) bullet is one from a civilian equivalent of an M16. The second bullet is a standard round used by hunters. The third is obviously a .50 caliber round. Monstrous size, monstrous damage. If fired from 1.5 miles away, it can hit you with more force than a .44 at point blank range.

 

[Kranz]

First is a 5.56mm, second a 7.62mm and third is the mother of all rounds

 

The 5.56 is big enough to start with, and even in a short barreled rifle it will be accurate out to 400m (in skilled hands of course ).

 

The 7.62 is a monster in comparison....... the .50 is an complete hand full

[Matt H]

True that a .50 cal round aint small but it will keep its shape as all rounds do.

They have too by the geneva convention as if it mushroomed it will cause more damage

and we only shoot to mame and not kill

 

So you've just told us what a .50 cal can do, and now you tell us you are only to mame not kill!! Doesn't firing a .50 round just totally contradict that?!

[SUPRASUZUKI]

The guy firing the gun is less than 2 meters from the bullet as it leaves the barrel.

 

He seems fine to me........

[Al Massey]

 

So you've just told us what a .50 cal can do, and now you tell us you are only to mame not kill!! Doesn't firing a .50 round just totally contradict that?!

 

We use a 5.56 to mame

7.62 is used for an arer weapon same as a .50 cal.unless used as a sniper weapon, but they kill with one shot

If we need to we will kill but we try to mame:innocent:

The reason is that it takes 2 people to help and injured person rather than having 1 dead on the floor

[Kranz]

 

So you've just told us what a .50 cal can do, and now you tell us you are only to mame not kill!! Doesn't firing a .50 round just totally contradict that?!

 

Depends how far away the target is

 

Out at 2000m its your only choice!

[MrRalphMan]

True that a .50 cal round aint small but it will keep its shape as all rounds do.

They have too by the geneva convention as if it mushroomed it will cause more damage

and we only shoot to mame and not kill

 

Maybe I'm thinking of anti tank ammo. Don't they start as a concave disk and shape themselves in flight.

 

Oh and if you're only aiming to mame, you suck at maming..

 

Hey, I never said the above quote ...

[Al Massey]

here is my usual weapon of choice

 

and a few of the rounds i use.

And these are designed to kill and destroy leaving no trace:d

[Al Massey]

Maybe I'm thinking of anti tank ammo. Don't they start as a concave disk and shape themselves in flight

 

That one is correct, well anti armour

[bigbloodyturbo]

 

No it will travel 1100feet in 1 second.

That is only 335 metres.

it may not hit the target at that range but it will travel the distance.

 

 

No, it wont travel 1100 feet in 1 second. I will say it again, muzzle velocity is velocity AT THE MUZZLE, unless you've been firing weapons in space where there is no air then it will not be travelling at the same speed it left the barrel 300 yards dowrange. If you've been firing sniper rifles you should know this, this is why you have ballistics tables, as the projectile slows down the effect of gravity causes the trajectory to tail-off. The same thing as dropping a bullet from the end of the barrel just as you fire another bullet, they will both hit the ground at exactly the same time (assuming the barrel is parrallel to the ground) as gravity is a constant on any mass, moving fast or otherwise.

[DJButler]

If you want to get into dodging bullets you are likely to discover the science of Ballistics rapidly becomes the science of Bollocks!!

You could try but think twice, a .223/5.56 is travelling at close to 2,000 miles an hour (3500 fps) or three times the speed of sound, just a moment i was not ready wont do you much good. If you insist on testing your theory you need to be the one pulling the trigger!.

[Digsy]

Right, you've all had your fun, now let's put this one to bed with some boring maths

 

First off, let's set some parameters which reflect what the OP was getting at: "Is it actualy possible to dodge a bullet after you see the barrel flash?"

 

Assumption 1: You can see the muzzle flash. There are no suppressors, he isn't looking the wrong way. His guidedog is awake, etc, etc.

 

Assumption 2: "Dodge" means "avoid being physically hit". Ignore shockwaves, vorticies, etc, etc.

 

Assumption 3: Muzzle velocity = just supersonic (350m/s)

 

Assumption 4: Distance required to move to avoid being hit = 2m in any direction.

 

Assumption 5: The target is a healthy male weighing 90kg (14 stone) In a life-threatening situation his leg muscles can exert a force of 775N, the same as a sprinter in the starting blocks (source: http://www.elitetrack.com/article_files/newtonian-sprinting.pdf)

 

Assumption 6: His reaction time is 0.5s from seeing the flash to starting to move.

 

Assumption 7: For reasons which will become obvious later on, the shooter is 414m away

 

Right, easy part first. At 350m/s, the bullet will take 1.18s to cover the 414m from muzzle to target. This is neglecting air resistance, so in reality it will be longer.

 

The light from the muzzle flash travels at 300,000,000m/s and takes 1.38 microseconds to reach the target's eyes. Given the very rough calculations this is small enough to ignore.

 

So, with a 0.5s reaction time, the target has 1.18 - 0.5 = 0.68s in which to move 2m to avoid the shot.

 

Now on to the person on the receiving end:

 

Remember he weighs 90kg and can exert 775N of force. Newton's laws of motion tells us that he can therefore accelerate at 775 / 90 = 8.6m/s^2 This is assumed to be linear, although it certainly won't be in real life.

 

He has to cover 2m to avoid the bullet. By taking one of the o-level physics linear motion equations and rearranging:

 

s = u.t. + 0.5.a.t^2

 

Where:

s = distance covered

u = initial speed

t = time

a = acceleration

 

In this case, we are starting from rest, so u = 0 so the equation becomes:

 

s = 0.5.a.t^2

 

Now all we have to do is rearrange so that t becomes the subject:

 

t = (2.s / a)^0.5

 

So now given s (2m) and a (8.6m.s^2) we can work out that covering 2m will take 0.68s

 

Well, waddya know? It takes exactly the same time for the bullet to reach the target as it takes to move 2m out of the way, so in this case, given all the assumptions above (most importantly the muzzle velocity and range) yes, the target will get out of the way in time.

 

If you want to play "what if", (or more likely find an error in my maths) I've attached the spreadsheet to this post.

[Al Massey]

No, it wont travel 1100 feet in 1 second. I will say it again, muzzle velocity is velocity AT THE MUZZLE, unless you've been firing weapons in space where there is no air then it will not be travelling at the same speed it left the barrel 300 yards dowrange. If you've been firing sniper rifles you should know this, this is why you have ballistics tables, as the projectile slows down the effect of gravity causes the trajectory to tail-off. The same thing as dropping a bullet from the end of the barrel just as you fire another bullet, they will both hit the ground at exactly the same time (assuming the barrel is parrallel to the ground) as gravity is a constant on any mass, moving fast or otherwise.

 

Right point number one.

The round will travel at those speeds and will only slightly go slower.

but only slightly

how do i know this i hear you ask.

Because we rifle the barrels which makes the round spin and cut through air

The round will tail towards the ground due to gravity so it wont stay at a constant speed for miles and miles as it eventually hit the ground

 

Point number 2.

If i had 2 rifles pointing at the ground say 100 feet in the air.

And i dropped one bullet and fired another.

They will hit the ground at different times

I SAY AGAIN they will hit at different times.

Why? I hear you ask.

yes gravity will pull all mass the same but one bullet is being pushed through a barrel with high pressure so it will hit the ground sooner than the other.

 

And there is one way you can test this method yourself.

Get 2 tennis balls and stand on top of your sofa/table.

With one hand just release the ball and the other throw it at the ground and tell me which one hits first.

[Scott]

Right point number one.

The round will travel at those speeds and will only slightly go slower.

but only slightly

how do i know this i hear you ask.

Because we rifle the barrels which makes the round spin and cut through air

The round will tail towards the ground due to gravity so it wont stay at a constant speed for miles and miles as it eventually hit the ground

 

Point number 2.

If i had 2 rifles pointing at the ground say 100 feet in the air.

And i dropped one bullet and fired another.

They will hit the ground at different times

I SAY AGAIN they will hit at different times.

Why? I hear you ask.

yes gravity will pull all mass the same but one bullet is being pushed through a barrel with high pressure so it will hit the ground sooner than the other.

 

And there is one way you can test this method yourself.

Get 2 tennis balls and stand on top of your sofa/table.

With one hand just release the ball and the other throw it at the ground and tell me which one hits first.

 

Point no.2 is wrong. There is a name for that phenomenon. There is a little gun thing you can get that fires marbles. One fires out and the other is dropped. They both hit the ground at the same time.

 

Edit:

 

As for point no.1 of course the bullet would slow down, the friction from the air is what makes a bullet hot. It won't be a tiny bit either, in a second its speed will have dropped dramatically. Thats the reason sawn off shotguns are only any good at close range. Taking the bigger guns with the spiral will help combat this but it doesn't allow it to defy the laws of physics.