G20 protests

[imi]

but he was there and he didnt do as he was told by riot police... I know I bloody well would! It was unfortunate that he had a weak heart... did he know this? was he on meds for it? we will never know.

 

indeed - unfortunate for him and his family.

 

didnt do as he was told - what was he told and what didnt he do, from the video we can clearly see that he was walking AWAY from the police and ONE policeman pushed him to the ground very hard.

 

Through all of this I have sat on the fence about what people have done and how the police reacted but not one person has said at what point it is right to turn up and smash things.... at that point the police should be within their rights to use any force necessary...

 

Common sense would suggest that if the police are being provoked and the protestants are antagonizing and violent then they have every right to react in order to nullify the situation.

 

In the case of the guy - from the video I cant see that to be the case.

 

In the case of that women - she seemed to be "mouthing it large"; i'd have clobbered her in the face

[supra_aero]

It is all very interesting.

 

I do wonder how many more clips will surface now - there must have been tons of clips flying around which people didn't think people would care enough to put up. I can see far more surfacing now, whether g20 related or beyond.

 

If this is how the world is now, what will it be like in 10 years time?

[Gaz6002]

Some strangely petty arguements going on in here (imi).

 

I think where there's such an element of unrest right now that things were always going to be inflamatory, despite measures taken by the authorities.

 

Comparing to other protests in the past of the same scale it actually went quite smoothly, despite the mass media's provocative and irresponsible reporting of the event.

 

The Home Office comes under critism for their tactics but what exactly could they have done differently?

[imi]

Hmmm, nice language and she was definitely behaving in an aggressive manner, and she also uses physical force on the officer, with so many people around how is he to know that she didn't have a weapon of sorts? (in my opinion of course)

 

As an alternative point of view here (wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea ), it may have been dealt with sooner in the manner which it was rather than let it escalate like it MAY have into a more aggressive riot.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing which people like to hang on to in order to explain unpleasant situations.

 

For example and this is hypothetical of course (again for those who may mistake this as fact) if the police did nothing and it escalated into a violent mass causing widespread destruction would people perhaps be complaining about the ineffectiveness of the police force?

 

Seems like you have finally decided to lift your head out from the sand

[imi]

Some strangely petty arguements going on in here (imi).

 

Disagree, completely justified by me (due to his statements) and completely missed by the other party.

 

Read the post if you care, if not, not to worry, not life shattering.

 

Good to see that he has finally decided to look into the media coverage and the available info before commenting - goal achieved

[Branners]

thanks the link didn't work but on looking at your article I managed to find this one.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/apr/15/g20-police-tomlinson-vigil

 

She did prevoke the cop to be honest but he did use a heavy hand.

 

My view...

 

Did she have a knife on her? Who knows, I know if I was in that position and somebody appeared angrily beside me I would ask them to go away, if they failed to go away I wouldnt take the chance and I would make SURE they went away.

 

Same with the bloke who had the heart attack. He had his back to the police and his hands in his pocket ready to pull out a knife or a gun. Hindsight tells us he had neither, just a complete lack of common sense.

 

You play with fire, you will get burnt. Do not stand in front of a moving line of police, they will move straight over the top of you.

[supra_aero]

As an alternative point of view here (wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea ), it may have been dealt with sooner in the manner which it was rather than let it escalate like it MAY have into a more aggressive riot.

 

I somewhat agree. To be honest I was expecting a far larger scale riot than what was observed, giving what these 'supposed bankers' have done to the uk and global economy.

 

It makes you wonder though how other past riots have been handled. I bet police have always had this approach but simply due to lack of intelligence and technology (i.e. phone cameras etc.) and websites capable of free broadcasting of home made clips, none of this would ever come to light in the scale it has now. I bet if I went through CCTV archive records we would observe far worse than what we have seen in recent months.

 

I could be wrong but I somehow doubt it.

[supra_aero]

I think where there's such an element of unrest right now that things were always going to be inflamatory, despite measures taken by the authorities.

 

Comparing to other protests in the past of the same scale it actually went quite smoothly, despite the mass media's provocative and irresponsible reporting of the event.

 

The Home Office comes under critism for their tactics but what exactly could they have done differently?

 

agree

[supra_aero]

My view...

 

Did she have a knife on her? Who knows, I know if I was in that position and somebody appeared angrily beside me I would ask them to go away, if they failed to go away I wouldnt take the chance and I would make SURE they went away.

 

Same with the bloke who had the heart attack. He had his back to the police and his hands in his pocket ready to pull out a knife or a gun. Hindsight tells us he had neither, just a complete lack of common sense.

 

You play with fire, you will get burnt. Do not stand in front of a moving line of police, they will move straight over the top of you.

 

Good points there. I do however think he could have arrested or restrained her in a 'less aggressive approach'. She was half his size but you are right she could have had a knife. But given she had 2 objects in either hand I don't think the force he used was justifiable. Just my opinion anyway. Especially the slap - more specifically I believe it was a back hand .

 

In seriousness though its easy to point the finger afterwards, watching the video many times over in slow mo etc. etc. in the comfort of your home/office. In reality had I been in the cops shoes I am not sure how I'd have handled it.

[creative]

indeed - unfortunate for him and his family.

 

didnt do as he was told - what was he told and what didnt he do, from the video we can clearly see that he was walking AWAY from the police and ONE policeman pushed him to the ground very hard.

 

But what did he do before the start of the clip thats banded about the media? did he threaten to shoot a policeman? Did he try and throw a punch? I havent seen anything before to make a balanced "personal" judgement.

 

Ive always learnt that in a situation where I dont want to get prosecuted for punching someone i place my hands up in an act of self defence.. he takes a swing and Im allowed to retaliate in self defence. Is this what this chap was doing by putting his hands in his pockets?

 

I wonder if he was a piller of the community and never done anything wrong in his life and loved puppies...(hey dont we all )

 

Unless you were stood next to the guy in question we will never know.

 

 

 

Hmmm sounds like im playing devils advocate

[JustGav]

Seems like you have finally decided to lift your head out from the sand

 

Police once again seem to get a kicking whether they do something or not and yet people will bitch and moan about them for being/not being somewhere.

 

Fail to see how my argument has changed??

 

Are they just plain and simple incompetent?

OR

Are they trying to cover things up?

 

indeed - unfortunate for him and his family.

 

didnt do as he was told - what was he told and what didnt he do, from the video we can clearly see that he was walking AWAY from the police and ONE policeman pushed him to the ground very hard.

 

Common sense would suggest that if the police are being provoked and the protestants are antagonizing and violent then they have every right to react in order to nullify the situation.

 

In the case of that women - she seemed to be "mouthing it large"; i'd have clobbered her in the face

 

By your own posts you seem to be on the fence arguing both sides and in some cases advocating a stronger reaction than was delivered.

[supra_aero]

No we'll never know but we do know a man with his hands in his pockets facing away from the cops was killed after being hit (though we now know its not completely directly related).

 

That is enough to pass some judgement I think..

[supra_aero]

Fail to see how my argument has changed??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By your own posts you seem to be on the fence arguing both sides and in some cases advocating a stronger reaction than was delivered.

 

imi -> over to you

 

 

In seriousness this is getting silly guys. Let it rest.

[JustGav]

Good to see that he has finally decided to look into the media coverage and the available info before commenting - goal achieved

 

It is media coverage, and not something I put absolute fact in, as such I can not make an informed unbiased view with absolute certainty. Everything regarding this that I comment on is purely speculation based on what I have been fed through this thread / main stream media. A youtube clip of some woman getting smacked does not constitute a basis of fact.

[JustGav]

imi -> over to you

 

 

In seriousness this is getting silly guys. Let it rest.

 

Fair point, I'll put this matter to rest

[extendor]

did she, would he, could they, lets play twenty guesses. All I know (and that is enough) is what I saw on the vids.

 

Everything else is conjecture and not a reason or are we talking pre emptive policing. How far a stretch is that away from calling every man a rapist because they have the equipment to be a rapist.

[Gaz6002]

By your own posts you seem to be on the fence arguing both sides and in some cases advocating a stronger reaction than was delivered.

 

Completely agree. A discussion isn't really a discussion if someone enters it expecting or provoking an arguement.

[imi]

But what did he do before the start of the clip thats banded about the media? did he threaten to shoot a policeman? Did he try and throw a punch? I havent seen anything before to make a balanced "personal" judgement.

 

Common sense would tell me that if the police thought he was armed, they wouldnt let him walk away. Had he been charging the police in a threatening manner then the push in my opinion would be justified. With him walking away and his back turned to them, dont think the efforts of a SINGLE policeman were justified - gosh - I am repeating myself here.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm sounds like im playing devils advocate

 

Hmm, more like not reading previous posts to understand the points raised.

[imi]

Fail to see how my argument has changed??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By your own posts you seem to be on the fence arguing both sides and in some cases advocating a stronger reaction than was delivered.

 

Not seem, I AM; the two videos / scenarios are completely different and warrant a different reaction from the police in each case in my opinion.

[garethr]

What I find interesting is the way that history repeats itself.

 

It might be an idea if some of you young whippersnappers do a bit of research into the Met's Special Patrol Group (SPG), the predecessor to the Territorial Support Group.

 

I see that Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson "stressed all uniformed officers must wear shoulder identification numbers so they can be easily identifiable by the public". Only about 25 years too late......

[extendor]

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has also asked Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary (HMIC) to review policing tactics.

 

The reasons quoted are the volume of complaints made by the public about the actions and tactics of the police service during the policing of the G20 demonstrations.

 

Read full article here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8000246.stm

 

But basically this seems to be drawing to a close with a good result IMO

[j_jza80]

I would not know who to throw my bowler hat at first

 

Who are you, Odd Job?

[Gaz6002]

But basically this seems to be drawing to a close with a good result IMO

 

I doubt that somehow.

[extendor]

I doubt that somehow.

 

I think people feel a little bit more empowered to say what they feel and I suspect a few bad apples out there might think twice about how they behave. I will follow this closely to the end and TBH I am wary of a cover up and all the usual plattitudes which will inevitably follow. But one thing is for certain and that is the army of video cameras out there will keep everyone on their toes. Surveillance is a double edged sword. It also watches the watchers.

[supra_aero]

I watched the first hour of the obama deception yesterday (it finally arrived).

 

V. interesting - some views put forward are somehwat radical but there is an obvious element of within truth in it. It's something I always suspected, common sense infact, if you think about it.

 

But there are many not so many obvious 'happenings' which go on. I never really thought about media colusion and cartel marketing to deliberately not only shape public opinion but to go so far as to move financial markets in the favour of shadow central banks to enable huge supernormal profits.

 

These profits can then be used to further make huge profits buying struggling companies and then using the media to effectively market products in their favour increasing their value ten fold. It's all very interesting, especially to an entrepeneur such as myself .

 

Very interesting. I am going to do more research into it myself as I am just inquisitive like that. Not sure how far his petty protests will go in the grand scheme of things but I can't blame him for trying.