Consumer Law Question

[Paul]

Hi,

having spent the last week fitting a new kitchen and the aggro that goes with getting the right bits delivered and damaged items replaced, we put the spanking new Bosch oven on tonight and the electric fan is fouling on the casing!!! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

We did notice a slight dent on the back of the oven when it was un-packed but didn't think it would make any difference to the operation and as it's intergrated you can't see it, so I guess it's this that has fooked up the fan?

 

I'm thinking that the suppliers are responsible for starters as the damage was either caused en route from Bosch to them or from them to us and there is no point in a Bosch engineer coming to look at it as it's clearly down to the damage on the rear.

If the suppliers offer to change it then can we claim 'out of pocket expenses' such as paying to have it swapped over?

Thanks,

Paul

[Jake]

Was the box the oven came in damaged?

[neilg]

You should never have fitted it if there was a dent in the back of it.

 

There should be some form of sticker on the outside of the oven telling you not to use the oven if there is any casing damage.

 

Where did you buy it from? Be careful trying to claim as from there point a Bosch engineer will come out and replace the fan and casing. I would doubt you will get new oven

[Paul]

No, the casing showed no signs of damage and we only noticed it when the guy fitting it and me unpacked it.

I know we shouldn't have fitted it however the damage seemed slight and having mucked around with having other items replaced we thought it would be OK, we tried it out straight away before throwing the packing away but never thought to switch it to a fan mode. Also we paid for the guy fitting for the day so either way we would be out of pocket.

Bloody hell, if we didn't fit any item that had even minor damage then we'd only have half a kitchen

I've just looked at a DTI website and they clearly say that the supplier is responsible.

Surely they are in the wrong regardless of us fitting it, after all the fault only came to light when we tried the fan mode today. I mean, it wasn't an obvious cosmetic fault like the door broken and we just gave them the benefit of the doubt with this dent and gave it a go?

Fact remains that it was damaged when we unpacked which was only four days ago and we thought this to be a minor dent without it affecting the operation.

Paul

[John_M]

This site is heavy going but you'll find any legal information you require.

 

H.M.S.O.

[Paul]

Cheers John, I'll take a look.

I've decided to forget the fact I noticed the slight damage to the rear case as they will only refer to the labels on the box and the install instructions that say it isn't to be fitted.

I'm just going to tell them it's making a noise when the fan is on and it seems to be fouling and I want the oven replaced as it's only days old. Hopefully they will send a new one or an engineer to replace it and if they then point out the dent I'll just say I missed it.

We handled it with kid gloves so there is no way it's down to us but admitting we knew it was there before installation will just cloud the issue.

 

If they play silly buggers then I'll get onto the credit card co. (the very reason we paid this way was for protection)

 

Thanks all, Paul

[Jake]

Think ahead Paul, best to have answers to any questions they might ask.

Like they might ask how come the oven is damaged but the box wasn't? That might lead them to say the oven must've been damaged after it was delivered.

Good luck.

[Paul]

Yeah I know what your saying but they delivered it and it sat in the garage in the place they put it for a week before fitting. Nothing near it and no obvious damage to the packing.

On opening we noticed the dent to the rear but I'm thinking that it's better to say nothing about the dent and let them just replace a faulty item?

If they eventually suss the dent was the cause then we'll say we didn't notice it and as we handled it correctly at our end then it must have been there from the start, all the gods honest truth BTW.

On the other hand if we tell them we noticed it they will ask why we fitted it and will wrongly assume we caused the damage and hoped it hadn't caused any internal damage so fitted it regardless................if you see what I mean?

 

Trust me, the other items that were damaged, 99% of them showed no visable signs of the packaging being penetrated so this leads you to believe that they were packed in a damaged state!

 

Paul

[Jake]

I'm sure you'll be fine then. You seem like the sort of guy who can stand up for himself.

What company did that kitchen come from? Sounds like one to be avoided if so much of their stuff is damaged.

[Paul]

Thanks Jake, yeah I won't take any sh*t . LOL

 

It all came from MFI...........eek. To be honest the build quality is good and they did a good deal with appliances, all Bosch so the quality here is good too (other than the damaged oven).

Worktops came from an independent as they supplied better ones.

I'm such a fussy bastard really, to sum it up we had a total of five damaged doors (two major and the rest light scuffs) and the sink had a slight dent in the corner that was hardly noticable but you pays your money and all that.

Oh, and one tower unit and one end panel had slight damage.

They've replaced all but the doors which are due this week and they do so within a few days so you can't grumble at that.

 

I suppose when you look at a garage full of units/doors and appliances then you've got to put it into perspective but it must cost them a fortune replacing it all and they usually only take the 'faulty' item back if you ask them to so at this rate I could sell on a whole kitchen soon

 

Paul

[Green Peace]

Surely theres a 14 day money back garentee with everything you buy these days...getting a replacement won't be a problem I'm sure, especially when you are dealing with a major company which has prob got an ISO number.

 

I had major problems getting my money back on a remote controlled car from the Gadget shop that I had bought for my nephew even though it was within the 14 days...I was offered a replacement (as I said it was faulty) I was prepaired to sit it out at their branch in Brent Cross..but Nicholas wanted some other gadget there so it kind of made it easier...so everyone was happy.

 

I dont see you will have a problem, getting money back might make it more difficult but they would give in , in the end anyhow...good luck though!

[Paul]

Nightmare!!!!!!!!!

Phoned them today and they say that despite me asking for a replacement as I'm entitled to they still have to send a Bosch engineer out to verify that it has a fault?

He will then write a report and only then will they replace it.

Problem is that I'll have to play dumb when he notices the dent and say that we never noticed this when fitting it and convince him that we didn't do it which is the truth.

They can't get anyone out till Saturday, he won't bring a replacement so it'll be at least another week after this that a new one would be fitted.

I phoned the local store and blasted the manager there telling him I was prepared to hand out leaflets outside his store telling potential customers of my experiences and he wasn't too welcoming at this suggestion and gave me the head office/customer service manager's phone number. Will try them in the morning.

Paul

[neilg]

Paul,

I used to work for MFI thats why i said you would probably struggle to get a replacement.

I dont know the ins and outs etc. However as far as know Bosch will fix the appliance 3 times before replacing it. Especially if it just wants a new fan and housing.

If your local manager was anything like mine was shouting at him will make things worse. It will get to the stage that the more you piss him off the less he will do for you. He will make sure your oven doesnt get replaced, then eventually refuse to talk to you.

Try know the ins and outs of what your arguing about as you will find MFI are generally well within their rights whatever there doing.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted

[Paul]

Neil, as far as I can see if they have delivered a faulty item then I think that within 28 days(?) I can insist on a refund and not go with the repair.

After all I paid for a perfect brand new item not a shop soiled second.

 

If the oven developed a fault after this period then they have the chance to repair but this was supplied by them in faulty condition.

The manager of the local store seemed an understanding sort of bloke and said he respected me for not f'ing and blinding at him under the circumstances and he did say that we would just need to let the engineer take a look and then they would replace it.

There is no option on him or MFI not replacing or refunding, not in my book.

I'm like a dog with a bone on things like this, we're in the right and I expect them to do the right thing or I'll make it my mission to make life unpleasant in any way possible.

You didn't work in their call centre did you? hope not cause they are the most incompetent bullshitting idiots you could ever have the misfortune to speak to

Paul

[CJ]

My old gran used to say, "You get a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"!

 

In other words, whilst you are in the right, giving the manager and others serious grief will probably not get the response you want. It may be better to swallow a bit of pride, give him a ring tomorrow and apologise for going off on one and see if there is anyway he can help you.

 

OK, not nice, but better than having an enemy in the opposing camp eh?

[Paul]

Your Gran was right.

Read again, I said he respected me for NOT going off at him although I did put my case strongly.

I used to call them all the f' ing names under the sun in situations like this but found it better to start with a 'I'm the poor victim, help me' approach and then lay into them at a later date

 

Good ole Gran

Paul

[CJ]

Sorry Paul, I should have read it more thoroughly

[Paul]

No probs, appreciate the advice and comments.

Paul

[neilg]

Luckily i didnt work in the shi*ty call center Paul, i was a planner/seller whatever you want to call it. Crap company to work for so i packed my bags!

If you want your money back thats not a problem just tell them and they will get it picked up and give you your money back. I thought you were after a replacement? If you want to keep it i believe they will fix it before repair it.

If your not going mental they will have a lot of time for you trying to help out your situation. Try not to let it drag on, things get easily forgotten about due to high customer counts.

[Paul]

Cheers Neil,

At the moment it seems we are stuck with the Bosch engineer coming out on Saturday to inspect it. When he hopefully notices the dent in the rear case then I'll explain that we checked it quickly before install and then mainly the front part that is seen and that we missed this rear damage.

As he is from Bosch and face to face I'm hoping he will be more sympathetic than the knobs at MFI.

They seem to be saying that we can have a replacement if we reject the choice of repair but only after an engineer has looked at it.

I'm just hoping that they don't play silly buggers as this dent was caused during transit and not by us............and looking back it would have been better to have rejected it outright and to have been petty about it rather than giving it a go and fitting. A lesson for me in the future, I'll reject anything that isn't perfect from the outset!

see what happens?

Paul

[neilg]

sounds good, keep us posted

[Paul]

Update;

Bosch engineer came this morning and I told him we noticed a shallow dent on the rear panel (thought I'd be straight with him). He said that was common with MFI as they seemed to chuck the stuff around!

Anyway, he took the rear panel off and there was not obvious further damage to anything else yet the noise was still there? He ended up replacing the whole motor/fan assembly and this cured it.

It seems that the cooling part of the fan was hitting on the mounting bracket, possibly caused by the rear dent but maybe a manufacturing fault?

He straightened out the rear panel, very thin metal so it 'popped' back into shape and tested it and all's fine.

As he has corrected the fault by replacing the whole fan unit then I won't be looking for the ever helpfull MFI to replace, we had a look and nothing else could possibly have been damaged so I'm happy with it now.

It has a five year warranty anyway so I'm covered for any future problems.

Thinking about it, insisting on a replacement would be pointless and petty on my part and alot of aggro and there would be a good chance that the new one would arrive in a worse state than this one.

 

BTW, we had a delivery of some doors (replacements due to damage) on Thursday and three out of the five were damaged again!! Nice one.....at this rate I'll have a complete spare kitchen to stick on Ebay as they never take back the damaged ones.

 

I don't think any of the other kitchen suppliers are much better though, I've heard horror stories about a few besides MFI.

 

Cheers for any advice though, I've chilled a bit now having sorted this out.

Paul