imi Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 What is it all about? You say charity, I ask....why do we even accept the existence of such organizations in this country (welfare state) FOR people this country; charities for international causes is a separate subject that I dont want to get into. Surely if the Govt that we voted for did what they were supposed to do with the TAX that we pay then there would be no need for such organizations to support people in THIS country. By offering money to a charity do we get the ego boost that we are NOT the "poor"? Why are we always happy to be taken for mugs? Discuss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Agreed on the tax/socialist govt. thing. What annoys me the most though, is that all the highly paid celebrities featuring on the shows could probably club together a shitload more cash than the public can come up with (especially this year!) if they actually dipped into their pockets, rather than "donating their time" and being sanctimonious. Yes, I'm looking at you Bono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 You're right - charities essentially just provide a voluntary, targetted tax/benefit system that redistributes money in the same way government taxes and benefits do. Think of charity as a way of YOU getting to decide how much tax to pay and YOU deciding who should benefit from it. There is no reason this couldn't be a government activity, but there's no reason it necessarily should be a government activity either...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 There's not enough tax money to go around. There never has, and there never will be because we don't want to pay it. Simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benyon Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Agreed on the tax/socialist govt. thing. What annoys me the most though, is that all the highly paid celebrities featuring on the shows could probably club together a shitload more cash than the public can come up with (especially this year!) if they actually dipped into their pockets, rather than "donating their time" and being sanctimonious. Yes, I'm looking at you Bono. Imagine the money if you they took 1mil from everyone millionair and 1bil from every billionair in world and put it all together, Cha ching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The point is the tax gets shared, and is answerable, but you can aim your charity money in any direction you want. Assist causes you want, and extra money goes in that direction. Not every charity assists in stuff that the government aids in also. And certainly not just poor people... Of all the Rant threads you post consistently, i'm shaking my head at this one. Any excuse for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Can there be a ban on Imi posting Rant threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Charity starts at home, little evidence of that most of the time with these appeals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Celebrities do donate money, they donate a s**tload of money. only because they get tax relief back on it. about as much as 40% on what they donate Great Things like red nose is run by the BBC which needs money to run as it has no adverts, Then they have to pay for the acts and the show etc That is why i don not ever donate to red nose day as once they have collected all the money donated by the public peoples sharea and profits get deducted and at the end you are left with next to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 Agreed on the tax/socialist govt. thing. What annoys me the most though, is that all the highly paid celebrities featuring on the shows could probably club together a $#@!load more cash than the public can come up with (especially this year!) if they actually dipped into their pockets, rather than "donating their time" and being sanctimonious. Yes, I'm looking at you Bono. Agree. Well the Celebs use such "events" as an excuse to either revive or launch their careers so there is a selfish agenda behind their involvement which makes a mockery of any relevance to the initial intention if there ever was one. If raising money this way was so desirable, then rather than flooding the tube with 7 hrs of crappy, useless entertainment, why not simply put out adverts for say 2 hrs continously and get us to watch it for the sake of charity.... I'm sure we would do that (assuming that we believed in raising money this way) and they would raise far more money via televising their commercials......without these celebs taking advantage of a "said" good cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The point is the tax gets shared, and is answerable, but you can aim your charity money in any direction you want. Assist causes you want, and extra money goes in that direction. Not every charity assists in stuff that the government aids in also. And certainly not just poor people... Of all the Rant threads you post consistently, i'm shaking my head at this one. Any excuse for you. I actually agree with Matt H! Charity is society's way of progressing where government isn't/can't/won't/is ineffective IMO. You can't blame the government for a hurricane or a snow storm so why do you keep trying to point your finger at them for something else that isn't entirely within their control? It's getting a little old and boring now with everyone blaming the government for what they aren't doing. Isn't it time we looked at what they're doing and looked forward, rather than just having little 'rants' about it? We're in the situation we're in, and if charities are necessary to help the lowest common denominator then what exactly is the issue? It's not like the government is doing nothing, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 SO, maybe celebs should enter into a contract with comic relief to 'donate' a percentage of their earnings based on airtime/endorsements/advertising that participating in red nose day generates for them? Personally I won't be donating this year thanks to the economic downturn, but I probably will record the show and watch it on fastforward to catch the half hour or so of genuine entertainment, but skip the horror-adverts that ALWAYS show more celebs in far flung locations (who pays for that?) saying how terrible it all is, before most-likely romping off to the nearest 5 star accommodation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I can't stand the whole celebrity involvement. I find it quite annoying when i hear some rich tax dodger tell me to dig deep, ok when you pay your taxes i will dig deep They should have to pay money to be involved after all they are getting large scale exposure via TV and other advertising media. I do give to charity not as the op suggests out of some superiority to the less fortunate. I do it because i would probably waste it on something pointless anyway and even if a couple of £ makes it to the cause i am donating to then great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 ... if charities are necessary to help the lowest common denominator then what exactly is the issue? It's not like the government is doing nothing, is it? I think people's beef with charities and the _need_ for charities is that we all know that it's a business underneath. After "administration costs" etc, how much of the donated money actually ends up with the people who need it? If I give a homeless person a fiver, I like to think that that'll help them more than if I buy the Big Issue off them, for example, which in turn is probably better than donating to Shelter or some homeless charity which has offices to run, etc. How could it all be made better? Damned if I know. Perhaps the only solution is a fundamental change in society, perhaps following the communist ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I think people's beef with charities and the _need_ for charities is that we all know that it's a business underneath. After "administration costs" etc, how much of the donated money actually ends up with the people who need it? If I give a homeless person a fiver, I like to think that that'll help them more than if I buy the Big Issue off them, for example, which in turn is probably better than donating to Shelter or some homeless charity which has offices to run, etc. How could it all be made better? Damned if I know. Perhaps the only solution is a fundamental change in society, perhaps following the communist ideal. But that's the point isn't it? Captialism doesn't work with charity in an effective way, because it's against the very ideals of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveL Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Jeez - I hope you lot don't ever need charity support! If you agree - give, if you don't switch over and watch something else... Maybe someone can rant about the dispicable actions of the South African government or something! Or maybe the diamond mines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Can there be a ban on Imi posting Rant threads? I think its because Michael has his ban, so he's free to rant for a few days. Expect a few more of these... As for Comic Relief, I also agree with the fact that all these highly paid celebrities don't appear to be contributing too, which would make a real difference, considering how much money these people make, and then preach to us about giving. Its a bit hypocritical really. Unless I'm wrong that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 Charity is society's way of progressing where government isn't/can't/won't/is ineffective IMO. Can you list some of these areas where the Charities are more effective than the Govt for UK issues? You can't blame the government for a hurricane or a snow storm so why do you keep trying to point your finger at them for something else that isn't entirely within their control? Offcouse they are....they are supposed to put aside funds to such acts of God. If they dont put aside sufficient funds, then who is to blame....YOU? Reason why I keep pointing my finger at them is because I believe that they are wholly responsible for the crap that we are in today in this country for a start (not to mention their involvement and influence over global affairs too - separate subject). It's getting a little old and boring now with everyone blaming the government for what they aren't doing. Isn't it time we looked at what they're doing and looked forward, rather than just having little 'rants' about it? We're in the situation we're in, and if charities are necessary to help the lowest common denominator then what exactly is the issue? It's not like the government is doing nothing, is it? "Looking forward and move on" - indeed, waiting for the next election to vote these crooks out. We are in this situation due to them unless you can highlight otherwise. You refer to the lowest common denominator - who in the UK would be classed as that? I am a bit confused. Maybe someone can rant about the dispicable actions of the South African government or something! Or maybe the diamond mines.... Agree. However International issue = separate topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Maybe someone can rant about the dispicable actions of the South African government or something! Care to elobrate? [Pre or POST aparthied?] (Not looking for a fight mind you ) I do agree with charity, what I don't agree with is shoving it in my face. I don't support red nose day as I personally feel there is enough HUMAN charities and there is insufficient help for things like animals and the like, that however is MY own personal view point and I don't begrudge people donating to human charities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 So you want the government to be run perfectly, but it is only made up of humans, and it's constitunency is made up of even less, possibly half idiot! You're dilusional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 What is it all about? You say charity, I ask....why do we even accept the existence of such organizations in this country (welfare state) FOR people this country; charities for international causes is a separate subject that I dont want to get into. Surely if the Govt that we voted for did what they were supposed to do with the TAX that we pay then there would be no need for such organizations to support people in THIS country. By offering money to a charity do we get the ego boost that we are NOT the "poor"? Why are we always happy to be taken for mugs? Discuss.... I guess, as already been said there's not enough tax revenue to go round to sort out and sustain all our country's charitable/financial needs. There is no reason Imi why you or I can't personally volunteer and extra £15000 of our own money, every year, to the government to help all those in the northpeople in need...etc Over time we can erradicate those silly superflous do-gooding charriddies who stick their noses in the governments business. EDIT: Post #32 Tannhauser makes a good point here. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=178796&highlight=charity&page=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Can you list some of these areas where the Charities are more effective than the Govt for UK issues? Giving money to cancer research. Giving money to the blind Giving money for disabled sports Shall I go on? Offcouse they are....they are supposed to put aside funds to such acts of God. If they dont put aside sufficient funds, then who is to blame....YOU? I think you'll find the money given by the UK government is rather a lot more than your small-minded view can comprehend. Who is to blame for what exactly? The fact that there are poor people (a smaller proportion than pretty much every other country)? Or the fact that we have charities to reinforce the work our government already does? Reason why I keep pointing my finger at them is because I believe that they are wholly responsible for the crap that we are in today in this country for a start (not to mention their involvement and influence over global affairs too - separate subject). Exactly how old are you? Or how long have you been studying British and even international politics. You're starting to sound like one of these kids who just wants to finger the government because they don't understand the (much) bigger picture. "Looking forward and move on" - indeed, waiting for the next election to vote these crooks out. And I'm sure in 2 years the Tories will be the crooks, once you've latched onto another such thing to complain about. We are in this situation due to them unless you can highlight otherwise. Sure, ever wondered why we're not the only country in a financial mess? Ever thought that - for instance - Icelandic people are blaming the UK government? Because I can assure you, they're not. You refer to the lowest common denominator - who in the UK would be classed as that? I am a bit confused. I meant financially, i.e. the poorest people. Bascially, I see your view as very closed-minded, and quite inflamatory considering you can't back up what you're saying because fundamentally I'm right. Charity doesn't work effectively in a capitalist society. Moaning about it just highlights to me you'd be more happy in a dictatorship or a communist society. Close the door quietly on your way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I think he's anti-government for other reasons and looks at using anything he can to put them down, not that I think they're perfect but I do think Imi has other motives for starting these types of thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steady_dave Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 What is it all about? You say charity, I ask....why do we even accept the existence of such organizations in this country (welfare state) FOR people this country; charities for international causes is a separate subject that I dont want to get into. Surely if the Govt that we voted for did what they were supposed to do with the TAX that we pay then there would be no need for such organizations to support people in THIS country. By offering money to a charity do we get the ego boost that we are NOT the "poor"? Why are we always happy to be taken for mugs? Discuss.... Is this a serious post? At work we've had a massive day to raise money for this which is why I now have no leg hair, and I didn't do this for a F**king ego boost. It is a fact that people have a lot less money than other people so charities are a great way of helping the less fortunate than ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 ok guys lets chill out a bit. i be honest i help as much as i can for charities, i offer support and help to our local disabled children because quite simply its a very honourable and kind thing to do and as my faith goes every good deed has its reward either now or the afterlife. i dont seek pay cheques or recognition for what i do, i do it because it makes me feel tonnes better and thats all i care. what im trying to say is when you give to charity it should be from the heart, you should have the desire to help others, doesnt matter if you give £1 or £1000, if you give it for the sake of it and want recognition thats wrong. some charities have though been put under a watchful eye as not all donations get to their intended purpose but if you have this concern what is stopping you from helping the needy without going through all the charities etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.