Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Were do I start? Yes I spelt anonymous wrong for my user name. For the moderators, I am already a fully paid up member on this site but wish to remain anonymous for this thread, but if you need to have a word with me just say and I'll pm you, thankyou. I apologise now if this gets long winded and a bit mixed up, but this is causing problems and I, or we are looking for serious advice or help in what to do to try and get a satisfactory result in this matter. If you need any more information I may have missed out, just ask and I'll either answer on here or pm you depending on the sensitiveness of the info required. So here goes. A few years back we thought we had made a good friend at a shop we used to use, he was a manager there. We used to go out for meals together, my wife and I used to help him and his partner out with things around their house and all the other usual things. He told us that the business that he worked for had an ar@!?*le for a boss and that he was treating it like a personal bank, buying a flash new house and cars. This went on for a while. He said that the business was suffering because of this and that he could do a much better job if it was his. During this time his partner became pregnant and when they had their baby they asked us to be the god parents. We were honoured and accepted, as you would. As this was going on the business was begining to take a turn for the worse and was going into liquidation. Our friend approched us and offered us a business/investment opportunity to help him buy all of the assets and building lease so that he and his partner could take over this business. Because it had gone into liquidation we were pressured into responding as quickly as possible to help him with the initial finance for the purchase of the shop. He had promised us that he would be able to double our money over a five year period, which we thought was a sound investment. He also explained how he planned to run the shop and build it up as he had expert knowledge in this field. So without any paperwork being drawn up (our mistake, but we did find out that a verbal contract is still binding ) we lent him all of our life savings. This was back in 2005 and after the money was tranfered we never even had a "how's your father?" off him, it was down to us to make contact with them. We would offen go into the shop to see how things were going. Many times he would not even be there and the shop staff would say he off today or has gone somewhere. When we did make contact it would be "the shops not doing to well, we are struggling with sales" or "I'm having to spend money on new equipment". There was always somthing. This went on all the time and yet he would still spend money like it was going out of fasion on himself and his partner, New detached house,ZX10 bike, Audi advant for his partner, then a new one for him, he said he needed it for the business. And no end of designer clothes for the kids and themselves, but when we chased up some return on our investment it was always the same excuse. This went on until January this year when I happened to be driving past the shop and noticed it was closed. I popped in to the shop next door and asked what's going on? To my horror he said that they had gone out of business, nice of them to keep us informed! So now panic has set in as well as anger, rage and lots of other emotions. We have been doing research on his business to find out was is happening and have ever sent a letter registered post to them asking about our money. He has not replied and is ignoring us. We have been incontact with CAB and had a talk with a solicitor, he wanted £500 + vat just to send him a letter that didn't say much. We said how do we pay you, they have all our money? So, we did some more hunting and found out this week that his business went into liquidation and that all his stock was auctioned off on the 20th January to pay off all his suppliers. We spoke to the auctioneers who gave us the details of his liquidators. We spoke to them and they said that they did not even know about our loan to them and that there is no more money left in the shop after all the debts had been paid.He also mentioned to us that he is filling for personal bankruptcy at the end of this week and that he is helping him to fill out the paperwork as he is doing it himself. One thing that may be on our side is that when we first lent him our money he put it in his personal account as there was no business account set up at that time. I feel like we have been hustled for our hard earned savings and now that he is going for bankruptcy were do we stand,surly he has broken the law, he robbed us, and now we are asking for any advice, legal, what forms, anything, if any of you know anything we can do. Thankyou for reading this, anonymous and wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 sorry to hear this. I have a friend who's handy with legal theory, so i'll run this by him tommorow if I can get hold of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You didn't get the lending of your life savings recorded in writing?! I think you need to get some serious legal advice, and even then I'm not sure you have a case that will stand up in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Duplicate accounts are against club rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glosphil Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sounds to me like you have no hope. I would imagine winding a vice shut on his head until it explodes would make you feel better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You didn't get the lending of your life savings recorded in writing?! I think you need to get some serious legal advice, and even then I'm not sure you have a case that will stand up in court. We had a word with a solicitor about this. Basically even though it is verbal there is intent, which we have fulfilled and have proof, our bank accounts, and, I think it was obligation, or something like that. But basically he has broken his end of the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 sorry to hear this. I have a friend who's handy with legal theory, so i'll run this by him tommorow if I can get hold of him. Thankyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Duplicate accounts are against club rules. Didn't take you long did it............ This is serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sounds to me like you have no hope. I would imagine winding a vice shut on his head until it explodes would make you feel better... Thats to quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 We had a word with a solicitor about this. Basically even though it is verbal there is intent, which we have fulfilled and have proof, our bank accounts, and, I think it was obligation, or something like that. But basically he has broken his end of the contract. Surely he can counter any allegation of the above though? What proof do you have that he intended to defraud you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Surely he can counter any allegation of the above though? What proof do you have that he intended to defraud you? This is a problem, If you were lent money you would be paying it back in installments over a period of time. We've never seen one penney since we lent it him in 2005. And to break off contact with us after he got the money? That's why we feel we've been hustled. So hard to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is a problem, If you were lent money you would be paying it back in installments over a period of time. We've never seen one penney since we lent it him in 2005. And to break off contact with us after he got the money? That's why we feel we've been hustled. So hard to prove. It is very hard to prove. You can't prove that he/she agreed to installments, or even if they agreed to pay it back at all. That's the nature of word of mouth, unless you have eye witnesses. Even then it's not set in stone. I feel for you here, it seems you're between a rock and a hard place, and I hope you can find a lawyer who will see justice done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazB Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Why leave it all this time? Have you spoken with a solicitor before now about retrieving your loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Oh, and if legal proceedings are in process or are likely to be, this needs moving out of the public eye ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steady_dave Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Damn man, sorry to hear this, hope you get this sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You have a case, you need lots of legal help though. Your account will show the amount withdrawn and his account will show the same money being put in at a near date. Not quite as open and shut as that but thats a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3LL Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sorry to hear about this, but I jsut cant see you getting your money back without a very large investment on legal expenses etc and even then I imagine it will be a long winded process of years, and it will still not have a high success rate. I cant beleive you signed your life savings over without any legal documentation, have you not heard the term friends are friends but business is business, im sorry to say [as i do feel very sorry for you] but this has been a very hard lesson learnt. I wish you all the luck in the world in getting your money back however I cant see it happening any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 There is no legal action as yet. And yes you are right, should have had documentation drawn up. As for not chasing this up before now, I have no answer, I suppose we have been used for our generosity for helping other people. We have been chasing for some form of payments since late 2006 but did not want to go down the legal route. We did not expect tocome across the shop being closed. I shall try and answer as many posts in one reply as I can see I'll run out of free posts soon. Thanks for your input upto now, I'm off to bed. Goodnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Blimey. Amazing how friends can be so ruthless when money comes into it. Such a shame. How much are we talking about? Just ballpark, 10k? 50k? I would seriously consider escalating things and getting nasty seeing as the guy certainly seems to taking the piss out of you. Do you know anyone suitable to collect the debt on your behalf? 65-80% is better than 0% - assuming we're talking serious money here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2o2 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Blimey. Amazing how friends can be so ruthless when money comes into it. Such a shame. How much are we talking about? Just ballpark, 10k? 50k? I would seriously consider escalating things and getting nasty seeing as the guy certainly seems to taking the piss out of you. Do you know anyone suitable to collect the debt on your behalf? 65-80% is better than 0% - assuming we're talking serious money here. If this mate cant even talk to you and give you answer at least then i would be making some phone calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I admit I have no legal knowledge at all - but even if you had something in writing, would you really have a case? From your own post, you didn't lend him the money, you invested in the business expecting a good return. Whether he should have been repaying some of that investment while he was living it up with new cars is kind of a moot point now. From a very simplistic point of view (which is all I can have with no legal knowledge) : You invested in a business, and the business failed and is now in liquidation. I wouldn't expect the investors to get their money back in that situation. I hope I'm wrong, and I'm sorry about your loss - I know how I'd feel if it happened to me. But I'd be surprised if you had a legal leg to stand on. And even if you do - bankrupts don't usually need to pay their debts back. Something else that occurred to me on the way to work : This is a problem, If you were lent money you would be paying it back in installments over a period of time. We've never seen one penney since we lent it him in 2005. And to break off contact with us after he got the money? That's why we feel we've been hustled. So hard to prove. I think the fact that he didn't contact you / you always had to try to contact him is probably irrelevant. It might have given you warning that you'd made a mistake but I doubt there is anything legally binding that says he has to regularly contact you / still be friends with you after you gave him the money. But I'd also say the "he should have been paying it back" argument is completely weak. If you thought that, and if he was breaking some kind of contract - you had several years to do something about it. But you didn't - which I think makes your argument a lot less (legally) convincing. As I said originally - legally I think it's a case that you invested and the business failed. Investing is a gamble, and this time it failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Tend to agree with Davek, it sounds like an investment, not a loan. And even if you prove he owes you the money, can you prove he has it stashed away somewhere to pay you back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonynous Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Tend to agree with Davek, it sounds like an investment, not a loan. And even if you prove he owes you the money, can you prove he has it stashed away somewhere to pay you back? You are correct, however when I saw the first set of accounts published at companies house last November, I noticed that he had not declared this loan in his business finances/ accounts. When questioned why this had not happened he advised that he had decided to keep the money out of the books and treat it as a personal loan. With respect to having items in writing what I do have is correspondance inviting us to make the loan, and numerous text messages which I have kept from him offering to make repayments. So hopefully this will constitute as evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You are correct, however when I saw the first set of accounts published at companies house last November, I noticed that he had not declared this loan in his business finances/ accounts. When questioned why this had not happened he advised that he had decided to keep the money out of the books and treat it as a personal loan. With respect to having items in writing what I do have is correspondance inviting us to make the loan, and numerous text messages which I have kept from him offering to make repayments. So hopefully this will constitute as evidence. Perhaps - but I still think that if it got to court, any legal representative on his side would ask why you did nothing about it for 3 / 4 years and are only worried about it now the business has collapsed. I also think that if you do seek legal advice, you really need to get your story straight. On one hand you're calling it a loan - and yet, in your initial post : Our friend approched us and offered us a business/investment opportunity to help him buy all of the assets and building lease so that he and his partner could take over this business. Because it had gone into liquidation we were pressured into responding as quickly as possible to help him with the initial finance for the purchase of the shop. He had promised us that he would be able to double our money over a five year period , which we thought was a sound investment. That's not a loan is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraAyf Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 A verbal contract is always difficult to prove so that will be tough for you to substantiate in any court of law. The positive side is that you have a direct transfer of funds from your bank account to his bank account. The legal argument would be “why did you transfer such funds" so this would at the very least allow for you to create an element of doubt against his legal defence. The fact that the company is now in liquidation is a big problem inasmuch as you won't get anything from the financial remnants of the business. You will have to instigate a personal claim against him and the value of his current property which means that you will have to move fairly quickly before he begins bankrupt proceedings (or start soon after). He could transfer all of his assets in to his wife’s name and then file for bankruptcy, meaning that if you win your case then you still get bugger all as the wife owns everything and your legal action would be with him personally. This is the case unless you could prove that you were entering in to a joint venture business between you and the 'two' of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.