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individual throttle bodies


paul mac

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  • 2 weeks later...
Your metalworking skills. I envy them :(

 

right then today i have been mostly cutting aluminium and in answer to your comment Ian unfortunately my metal wittling skills are the easy bit, the tricky bit is probably the map and set up, all beyond my control :(, anyhoo made a jig up to hold the two plates at 20 degrees and then cut the oval ally tube with my new toy its a Rexon 1800 watt compound mitre saw (laser guided :eyebrows:) and for cutting the tube in two planes (20 degrees for the plate and canted at 11.5 degrees for cylinders 2 and 5) pretty much essential, need to do a bit of tweeking of the tubes and cut the injector boss's then off to the welders this week

throttle bodies 014.jpg

throttle bodies 011.jpg

throttle bodies 015.jpg

throttle bodies 012.jpg

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trouble is mate i am half way through fitting a new kitchen and you know how woman are about their kitchens :blink: she keeps interupting me

 

Damned women ;) They just won't stay chained to the sink long enough to let you get on with your work. Shorten the chain I say ;)

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  • 1 month later...
How's this coming on Paul?

 

thanks for asking :D, not much progress really, i need some machining doing at work so their on with that, i have been doing a lot of research into plenum design and its one of those topics that continuously throws up contradictions :search:, i think its really going to come down to a compromise in packaging and function with more emphasis on packaging to be honest as the space is going to be tight, i will try and pull my finger out :eyebrows:

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Guest pyro

nice to see some innovation :D

 

bit late for the mention now, but the CA18 from the nissan silvia (and i think the Exa and possibly the n13 pulsar) runs a butterfly setup in a secondary intake manifold. the idea is that there's 8 intake ports in total. 4 of those have the butterflies attached and only open at a certain rpm (something like 3500-4500). the final result is increased torque down low, due to the optimised flow for lower rpm, then the butterflies open at higher rpm to account for the increase in pressure and need for more air. these butterflies are behind a main throttle body btw, situated at the start of the primary intake manifold.

 

i understand your theory is quite different, but you said you liked a challenge and just thought i'd throw that one out there :p

 

oh and if you want more information on this setup, look at the Jap ca18's, not the euro version, because the euro version doesn't have it :)

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^^ toyota employs the same theory in its engines with ACIS and TVIS, on the N/A supra they use ACIS. Toyota TVIS as found in the 3SGTE's 4AGE's etc use the same principal as the nissans IIRC

 

 

 

 

ACIS :Acoustic Control Induction System.

Two and three stage Acoustic Control Induction Systems can be found on various Toyota models. Both systems operate on the same principles, however the 3-stage system is able to tune the intake manifold to 3 lengths instead of 2. 3-stage Acoustic Control Induction System (ACIS) uses two valves inside the air intake manifold to create the effect of 3 intake runner lengths. The ECM is able to select from these 3 lengths to effectively tune the intake manifold to engine operating conditions so that a pulse of high intake pressure is immediately available when the intake valve opens. The engine uses these high-pressure pulses to pull an unusually large volume of air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber, effectively supercharging the engine and increasing torque.

Benefit: Increases power output at all speeds"

 

 

TVIS

http://www.turbomr2.com/MR2/Reference/TVIS/TVIS.htm

Edited by bondango (see edit history)
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i was actually looking at making a two stage manifold, i picked up a Toyota TVIS butterfly plate (celica) cheap off ebay to really just look at the contruction, however due to the complexity of both the construction, mapping the changeover point and what gains there were to be had this never got off the drawing board, maybe one day :)

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  • 1 month later...

Well progress has been a bit slow and i have had a re think on a couple of points, i have ditched the angle on the adaptor plate which was an attempt to angle the bodies up as far as i could get them for intake manifold space, however the more changes of direction the intake air was going to make the more it would hurt flow :(.

I found a design solution for my packaging and flow problems in the form of a dual plenum intake (see attached example pic of an Audi set-up) which really solved my problems with trying to squeeze a more conventional shaped plenum in, so i could afford to ditch the angle on the adaptor plate and have the two plates parallel, and just mount the bodies upside down to give a slight angle.

There is nothing revolutionary about this type of manifold they have been around for years its just we are a bit unacustomed to seeing them on Supras :) anyone interested do a search on the tinterweb for dual plenum intake theres loads of stuff.

The injector boss's have also caused me grief measuring up the angles and getting the injector hole spot on but they are now good to go, so hopefully off to the welders this week ready for a test fit soon after

throttle bodies 019.jpg

throttle bodies 021.jpg

throttle bodies 020.jpg

audir8_intake.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

FINALLY got the adaptor soughted, a local engineering company jerked me about and two weeks turned into seven :complain: i got a mate of a mate to weld it (had it back in three days :)) then got it machined somewhere else, in hindsight i think i should of used thicker ally for the head plate as the 10mm i used warped quite badly and needed about 3-4mm skimming off to get it back level (you can see this in the pics), surprisingly the front plate is 12mm but that extra 2mm seems to have made it a lot more resistant to warping, ideally a scrap head would have been good to bolt it to whilst welding. The internals need a tickle with the die grinder to match everything and weather permiting i will take all my intake off :( tommorrow for a test fit for the plenum measurement and throttle linkage and get some pics of the bodies on the car

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Oooh getting somewhere now. Keep us updated :)

 

Cracking stuff Paul, can't wait to see what you think of the setup,

 

You mention in post one a list of possible problems, what about idle control?

 

PPS what have you done about the brake vacuum conection?

 

thanks for the encouragement guys, the vacuum connection is a mahoosive rail that links all the bodies (behind the throttle plates) this will hopefully alleviate these problems or at least minimise (see pic, fuel rail added for scale) the big central connection you see on the rail would be for the engine breathing and inlet air control (PCV and IACV in Toyota speak)on the M3 and the smaller tube is for the brake assist, these will need modding and i will need to chop the rail itself and re-weld due to some - not so "precision engineering" on my behalf :(, also have the bodies redundant injector boss's welded up (you can make out the oval shadow at the back), i did enquire with Ryan about running two sets of injectors (big and small) but he politely told me to stop being a silly boy and just run one :D, so they got welded up :D

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Edited by paul mac (see edit history)
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