GLENN STONEHAM Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Was / is there anything which identified the boundary line in question such as a post or different drive material for each house. Especially along the front boundary where the two plots meet. I am a surveyor & have given evidence & prepared plans on a number of occasions in the past re boundary disputes.Court action in very costly. Its not so much what the plans say, particularly if theyre old but what has been established over sufficient time (min 12 years I think) as the boundary. Some properties from scratch dont always have dividing fences etc but may have clear plans with measurments on or over time the occupants have settled on a line of division ie which bit of garden have they maintained. Some can be partly shared drives shown in the deeds & others that have become that way through established use ie the 12 year rule ( assuming its not been contested. Dont waste time cos if the work is done & dusted it will be much harder to get them to rectify it & as stated very costly if the legal route has to be taken. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Even though they're not that big, I would have thought the deeds etc. should show clearly whether the dividing line really is perpendicular to the house (which would make sense)? In which case, it's pretty obvious where they're block paving should end. A title plan won't show exact boundaries. A transfer plan will but often original deeds have been dematerialised. You should be able to get a transfer plan from the land registry though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 If they use your driveway to get to theirs, wouldn't putting up a dividing fence just make it harder for themselves? Doesn't the fence have to be on a certain side though? I know there was a dispute over a backgarden fence with a couple of my neighbours. I think you own the fence to your left don't you? So they wouldn't be able to put up a fence, as that would be yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Check whether your insurance policies provide free legal cover. If they do then ring them up. They usually have an advice line. The lads next to me specialize in boundry disputes, it's costly and messy (although if you have lei it is all paid for) Re using plans, they are not always clear cut and you start getting rights of way etc it gets messy quick My suggestion is to chat with them in a friendly non aggressive way and try resolve it amicably. Builders might be doing it and your neighbour might be unaware of the legal implications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Ok went round there tonight and she's not in. I don't think she was last night - it did occur to me that she might have gone away while the work is being done, she seems the sort. However on the note I put through her door this morning I put my phone number and I had a missed call from an unrecognised number at lunch time today so maybe she popped back and tried to call me. It was the right area code for here etc. I had another look at it and I can't really see much now as they've had the ballast and sand delivered and it's covered the line they had spray painted. I think she wants to put a picket fence half way up. There is no clear divide it's all gravel. There are weeds that run up the middle where no cars tend to sit, that is about all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you go onto the Land Registry site you can download, for a piffling fee, the title plans for any property that is on the current registry. It may be the original plans are better defined. They are at: http://www.landregisteronline.gov.uk/ I have the ones for this place on the PC somewhere, if I can find them I'll see if I can put one up, you then tell if the detail the scale they use might be sufficient before wasting 3 quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Thanks Chris I think I found this earlier but like you say I wasn't sure if it was going to be any more use than the ones I already have. I think I'm going to lose this one, or make it worse for myself!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I doubt it will be detailed enough in hindsight, boundary disputes are a total nightmare, when we bought the extra land we KNEW a neighbour had pinched about 150 x 20 foot to extend his back garden, but he'd sold and although the new owners must have known the land registry plan didn't match the plot shape, they chose to ignore it. I just told him that I'd let it ride if he paid to have it formalised on his deeds, and ours. Fighting it would have cost a packet and no doubt caused a lot of ill feeling and potential future issues, although we'd have benn perfectly in our rights in taking umbrage. Good luck, solicitors just LOVE boundary disputes, which tells me a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Fascinating. It's like gaza and israel in the sense that it could be a land dispute. Supragal obviously lives in Israel looking at her sketch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Chris I have a feeling as long as they aren't taking the p1ss too much I may have to let this one go a bit for the sake of good spirit. I so need to live in the middle of a forest so no-one can argue with me. Grrrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I agree that sometimes fighting with you neighbour about things, is not the way forward. It can be very difficult to chat to your neighbour about such matters, especially when there is a clash of personality, and also becuase land space can feel like personal space, and rightly so. Once the building work is completed you will be able to see how big any infraction is. But that you are willing to give a little bit, just to live in peace with your neighbour is an amazing thing in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Chris I have a feeling as long as they aren't taking the p1ss too much I may have to let this one go a bit for the sake of good spirit. I so need to live in the middle of a forest so no-one can argue with me. Grrrr. Not necesarilly the best option. You don't really want to legalise their move do u? Do yourself a favour... Spend 5 minutes with your insurance documents and check if you have legal expense insurance (a lot of us do). Ring their helpline and yet legal help for free. If not spend ten minutes and ring a law firm for a free meeting. Despite what people say it doesn't have to cost anything for legal advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 if the detail the scale they use might be sufficient before wasting 3 quid It's normally not. As I said before, title plans don't tend to show properly the boundaries or at least not with T markings. Transfer plans or plans from the original build do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Ok so there are no plans with exact measurements. I went to see her and it didn't go as well as hoped. I said about the 2 lines that had been marked and it went something like this: Her: "Yes they drew the first one then realised it would make getting on and off my driveway difficult so I told them to do it again, and to draw the line from the middle of the houses to the middle of the tarmac at the top" Me: "But the plans show that the boundary is from the middle of the houses at a 90 degree angle straight up so that's the line that needs to be followed" Her: "I just got them to do the line from the middle of the houses to the middle of the tarmac at the top" Me: "The line should be from the middle of the houses at a 90 degree angle straight up" And we basically just stood there and amicably releated ourselves about 9 times. Now they have had a load of ballast etc delivered (partly onto my driveway!!) and obscured the line anyway! I needed to go so I said that as I was off on Monday I would speak to the guys doing the work as I'm sure I'd see them during the day. They are doing the rear patio first so not starting the driveway for a couple of days. Not looking good though!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Send a solictors letter to her asap stating if the driveway is not put to the correct boundaries you will take court action and she will incurr all costs of solictors and surveyors etc would be my advice, should scare her into putting it right imo. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus1 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Good luck with this. If the plans that you already have show that the boundries run at 90 degrees to the properties ( but don't have the exact measurements ) then that should be enough of a case against her with her angled bondry. Show this to her builders and say that you are considering legal action and you want to see the planning permission for the drive as this would have to been approved with boundries to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Send a solictors letter to her asap stating if the driveway is not put to the correct boundaries you will take court action and she will incurr all costs of solictors and surveyors etc would be my advice, should scare her into putting it right imo. Good luck. You would need to go see a solicitor 1st **Repeats his previous post (for the 3rd time) in relation to legal expense insurance.** Might be worth writing as Jamie said whilst you contact solicitors since it all takes time and your problem appears to be a case of where time is of the essence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Good luck with this. If the plans that you already have show that the boundries run at 90 degrees to the properties ( but don't have the exact measurements ) then that should be enough of a case against her with her angled bondry. Show this to her builders and say that you are considering legal action and you want to see the planning permission for the drive as this would have to been approved with boundries to consider. This is a good idea. I'd bet both my legs they've not bothered with a planning permission, so you have a big lever right there. You can check on your councils website, see Public Access, to find the application if they made it. If so there might be drawings uploaded. The council would eventually make them pull it up if they have not installed a SUDS system, and any subsequent application they make can be objected to by you if it infringes your land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Good luck with this. If the plans that you already have show that the boundries run at 90 degrees to the properties ( but don't have the exact measurements ) then that should be enough of a case against her with her angled bondry. Show this to her builders and say that you are considering legal action and you want to see the planning permission for the drive as this would have to been approved with boundries to consider. This is a good idea. I'd bet both my legs they've not bothered with a planning permission, so you have a big lever right there. You can check on your councils website, see Public Access, to find the application if they made it. If so there might be drawings uploaded. The council would eventually make them pull it up if they have not installed a SUDS system, and any subsequent application they make can be objected to by you if it infringes your land. I'm still not convinced she even needed planning permission - it depends entirely what materials they're using, and how the driveway is laid. From http://www.planningportal.gov.uk : From 1 October 2008 new rules apply for householders wanting to pave over their front gardens. Please note that the permitted development rights apply only to houses and not to flats. You will NOT need planning permission if a new driveway uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally. If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not control rainwater running off onto roads. So, she would not have needed planning permission if they are using porous blocks, or if the driveway is done so that it slopes to a lawn etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Is block paving porus?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Is block paving porus?! Its not as simple as that, depends what base its laid on and if the use kiln dried sand in the joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Also they aren't paving over their front garden, it's already a driveway, just gravel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Also they aren't paving over their front garden, it's already a driveway, just gravel... I don't think that makes a difference - they still need to follow those guidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Ok cool. Well I'll speak to them blokes on Monday and hopefully they will be sensible about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Also they aren't paving over their front garden, it's already a driveway, just gravel... Well the gravel would be porous, and the paving may well be, but we've yet to see, dependant on direction of fall. If you PM me your address I can look for a planning permission for you. Obviously, at some point I will begin stalking and harassing you, vis-a-vis a brutal tabloid slaying, but one step at a time eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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