Chris Wilson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Overall tyre rolling diameter should be the same as your tyres.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Plus, am I right in thinking that only Jspec brakes will fit behind 16" wheels? Id rather sacrifice some of the handling for a better set of brakes. I do have a spare set of UK spec 17's here though, so I might see if my Brembo F50s will fit with these tommorow... Has anyone tried R888s on a Supra on 17" stock wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatSport Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Grip? all this talk about tyre types and pressures and no mention of SUSPENSION settings, weight transfer etc etc ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Grip? all this talk about tyre types and pressures and no mention of SUSPENSION settings, weight transfer etc etc ?? Because this thread is purely about tyre sizes and pressures etc. Suspension settings are more important (Nobodys disputing that) but that's not the point this time. Remember though, the suspension's only as good as the tyres it's controlling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatSport Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Because this thread is purely about tyre sizes and pressures etc. Suspension settings are more important (Nobodys disputing that) but that's not the point this time. Remember though, the suspension's only as good as the tyres it's controlling. don`t agree with any of that `tyre and grip research` was the title, you`re wasting time talking tyres alone and not taking into consideration all other factors that effect grip of said tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 don`t agree with any of that `tyre and grip research` was the title, you`re wasting time talking tyres alone and not taking into consideration all other factors that effect grip of said tyres. You don't agree that it's your tyres that make contact with the road? Maybe you're right, but I was under the impression that he was talking about how much grip different sized tyres gave with THE SAME suspension settings, to find out which tyres/pressures gave the best grip. He wasn't trying to find the best overall setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I would imagine that tyre type, compound and construction is going to have a very big effect on whatever size you choose to use, also take suspension setup and wheel weight into consideration, so there is no ideal tyre/pressure combination that is going to apply to all Supras. Just a case of experimenting with pressure until it feels right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Grip? all this talk about tyre types and pressures and no mention of SUSPENSION settings, weight transfer etc etc ?? This annoys me - some people have gone to a lot of trouble to get some tried and tested results down and some clot comes along and goes "Yah Yah but where is the 3 dimensional chart of every tyre size versus tyre brand versus every suspension setup known to man huh? WHERE IS IT? THIS IS WORTHLESS YOU SUCK". Well, crack on sunshine, put your money and your free time into swapping suspension and tyre setups and post up the results. I doubt that'll happen though, as you can't even be arsed to use the shift key or a full stop. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I read the original poster as having experimented to optimise WET road grip, particularly in standing water, by experimenting with different widths and profiles on a given (18 inch) rim size. As such it's one of the more interesting technical threads that's been posted of late, however limited the data, and one I applaud, not to mention agree with its findings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Hi Chris Suspension -- TRD Bilstein Shocks, Springs -- TRD up-Rated Anti-roll bars Wheels -- 19 Front 245/ Rear 275 Tyres -- Eagle F1 Profile 35 I am sure you read my findings with my Current setup experimenting with tyre Pressures I would like the car to feel more planted in corners, for me she rolls abit too much and considering your expertise in Suspension setup what would you recommend as I am sure alot of members here have similar setup What approach should we take to tune this type of setup or is it a lost cause until I reduce rim Size For Example Install more Equipment or adjust current settings Get Strut Brace? Do luck Cross member Bar Adjust Camber, Toe in/out Edited January 22, 2009 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have to be brutal to be kind, the car's one of those wide bodied ones, isn't it? If so the whole thing's so WRONG it's really only ever going to be a looker rather than a handler. The wheel sizes, offsets, leverages, gyrocopic precession, everything is against it handling like a stock one. They look great, no doubt, but to make one handle properly would cost a fortune if you want to keep the wide arches and still fill them out. Toyota should have made wider subframes like Nissan did with the GTR V the GTS-t, or longer wishbones, not just nailed on wheels with massive offsets. All you could do is take the compliance out of the suspension, fit as light a wheel and tyre package as you can find and accept a ride like a truck, very poor power put down, and tram lining like, err, a tram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have to be brutal to be kind, the car's one of those wide bodied ones, isn't it? If so the whole thing's so WRONG it's really only ever going to be a looker rather than a handler. The wheel sizes, offsets, leverages, gyrocopic precession, everything is against it handling like a stock one. They look great, no doubt, but to make one handle properly would cost a fortune if you want to keep the wide arches and still fill them out. Toyota should have made wider subframes like Nissan did with the GTR V the GTS-t, or longer wishbones, not just nailed on wheels with massive offsets. All you could do is take the compliance out of the suspension, fit as light a wheel and tyre package as you can find and accept a ride like a truck, very poor power put down, and tram lining like, err, a tram. I remeber now, you said that awhile back about subframes for the TRD3000GT's,so I take it is the Wheel offset impacting the handling, didnt think that would be an issue but every days a school day. Would a Supra normal offset and Spacers work better then? So all I can do is get correct Tyre pressure and would the Strut Bars help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatSport Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Who was it here that went... "Yah Yah but where is the 3 dimensional chart of every tyre size versus tyre brand versus every suspension setup known to man huh? WHERE IS IT? THIS IS WORTHLESS YOU SUCK". -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Strut braces will make no difference at all, I have yet to see a commercially made strut bar that looks like it would do more than sit there asking to be polished I have a photo of a Skyline one somewhere that looks the business, but they are brutally expensive. As soon as you add spacers you are just changing the offset. It'll be worse as you are then adding in a n extra interface that can move, go out of egocentricity, break or whatever. If you want to know what dire things TRD have done to the car borrow some 17 inch stock UK rims, with their correct tyres, bolt them on and see how it drives. It may look strange, but it will show you just how bad they made it when the kitted it out on the cheap. The only thing that will help is to remove compliance from the suspension bushes. I would suggest the Ikeya kit, or whatever it's called, that removes the rubber bushed links for adjustable ones with spherical bearings. the car will be a LOT harsher, noisier and higher maintenance (the bearings will be junk given the price of the kits) but they WILL help keep the front and rear wheels pointing in roughly the right direction with the huge added loads those rims and tyres will have imparted. It won't help the poor old wheel bearings and rear hubs, which you can expect to show signs of distress far earlier than on a normal model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Who was it here that went... You, in a manner of speaking: Grip? all this talk about tyre types and pressures and no mention of SUSPENSION settings, weight transfer etc etc ?? Because this thread is purely about tyre sizes and pressures etc. Suspension settings are more important (Nobodys disputing that) but that's not the point this time. Remember though, the suspension's only as good as the tyres it's controlling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Strut braces will make no difference at all, I have yet to see a commercially made strut bar that looks like it would do more than sit there asking to be polished I have a photo of a Skyline one somewhere that looks the business, but they are brutally expensive. As soon as you add spacers you are just changing the offset. It'll be worse as you are then adding in a n extra interface that can move, go out of egocentricity, break or whatever. If you want to know what dire things TRD have done to the car borrow some 17 inch stock UK rims, with their correct tyres, bolt them on and see how it drives. It may look strange, but it will show you just how bad they made it when the kitted it out on the cheap. The only thing that will help is to remove compliance from the suspension bushes. I would suggest the Ikeya kit, or whatever it's called, that removes the rubber bushed links for adjustable ones with spherical bearings. the car will be a LOT harsher, noisier and higher maintenance (the bearings will be junk given the price of the kits) but they WILL help keep the front and rear wheels pointing in roughly the right direction with the huge added loads those rims and tyres will have imparted. It won't help the poor old wheel bearings and rear hubs, which you can expect to show signs of distress far earlier than on a normal model. Thanks Chris, great feed back as always even if it is something I wish i did not know now Sure over here with traffic, it is better to look good in the Words of Homer J Simpson "Well, it's 11pm. Better go home and spend some quality time with the kids" Edited January 22, 2009 by Jellybean (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks clodola, glad you are taking this as well as I give it, I am NOT trying to be clever, it's just a fact that wheels with such offsets will have very detrimental effects on how the car handles, and given huge arches to cosmetically fill your choices are very limited. 19 inch rims with the ultra low profile tyres they need to keep the rolling diameter near to stock are about the worst thing you could add. the taller the profile (smaller the WHEEL diameter) the less impact the added offset will have on tread lifting in squat or cornering. Handling will improve as will tyre wear. Expect to have tyres like new on the outside and to the wire braids on the inside, as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatSport Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 You, in a manner of speaking: Err, Wrong! i said nothing of the sort and well you know it. and another thing........ (by Ian C) "I doubt that'll happen though, as you can't even be arsed to use the shift key or a full stop. -Ian". Pity you couldn`t have been arsed in attending english class - you don`t include full stops in sentences ending in question mark - oh well:rolleyes: anyhow back to the topic in question `tyre and grip research`, imo you can have the best tyre in the world, but if you`re suspension set-up is sh1t you end up with little benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Err, Wrong! i said nothing of the sort and well you know it. Haha OK I just call 'em as I see 'em, and I see what Ian did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Err, Wrong! i said nothing of the sort and well you know it. Yes you did. It's called "reading between the lines". Pity you couldn`t have been arsed in attending english class - you don`t include full stops in sentences ending in question mark - oh well:rolleyes: You're using the wrong apostrophe character. You missed the letter "a" out, or should have pluralised "mark". No space between "well" and the smiley. Shocking. "all this talk about tyre types and pressures and no mention of SUSPENSION settings, weight transfer etc etc ?? " Lower case a to start a sentence, use of all caps with "suspension", no full stop after each abbreviation of etcetera, no punctuation signifying the end of the sentence, then two random question marks after a paragraph break. Now normally I let all that stuff slide but someone accusing me of bunking off every English (note capitalisation) class ever needs a kick in the consonants as far as I'm concerned, and it's nightshift and I'm bored. anyhow back to the topic in question `tyre and grip research`, imo you can have the best tyre in the world, but if you`re suspension set-up is sh1t you end up with little benefit Hehe - that lot undermines everything you professed to know about sentence construction by repeating exactly the same mistakes. Priceless And it reiterates that you think the OPs research is useless. Thank you for making a nightshift a bit more bearable, kthxbai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thanks clodola, glad you are taking this as well as I give it, I am NOT trying to be clever, it's just a fact that wheels with such offsets will have very detrimental effects on how the car handles, and given huge arches to cosmetically fill your choices are very limited. 19 inch rims with the ultra low profile tyres they need to keep the rolling diameter near to stock are about the worst thing you could add. the taller the profile (smaller the WHEEL diameter) the less impact the added offset will have on tread lifting in squat or cornering. Handling will improve as will tyre wear. Expect to have tyres like new on the outside and to the wire braids on the inside, as it is. The Logic is there to support what I am experiancing, so its all good. Plus when you buy a Supra you are buying a GT car. I did make the decision to have looks over handling, I was told before I bought the car (Not drove or sat in one before mine arrived from Japan) that other Jap cars (Skyline GTR) would run rings around it on the race track but a Supra would dominate in appearance, so I am not surprise about the handling just great to get the logic behind what is happening. I presume this is why D1 or Drift tuned cars in general run big offsets, so it is easier to unstable the car and I am sure Aesthetics also play a big part? With regards all the propaganda around Works/Tuner Companies (HKS,Trust,Apexi etc), is this just good marketing or are would you recommend there Suspension products? It is difficult to tell whats good, whats not due to all the marketing blurb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatSport Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yes you did. It's called "reading between the lines". LOL, you make it so easy! "Reading between the lines" is an assumption, and what shouldn`t you ever do Ian?? C`mon, yes you got it, NEVER assume. Assumptions can make people look like a$$holes! As for punctuation, this is a car forum not a written english exam. If the OP wanted a rant about punctuation he`d have gone elsewhere. Just this time i`m prepared to give you a `fools pardon` as you seem tired, ratty with possibly other things on your mind. In future try to address the topic in question, it was interesting and important with lots of opinions and viewpoints, we don`t need off topic rants from those who`ve had a bad day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 snip..snip..rant...rant...snip..snip To quote Rob http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232710092&sr=8-1 Guess that means you won't need any tech knowledge from one of the most knowledgeable people here..shame.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatSport Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Let me see now... so where was this `tech knowledge` you speak of here... Rant 1 - "This annoys me - some people have gone to a lot of trouble to get some tried and tested results down and some clot comes along and goes "Yah Yah but where is the 3 dimensional chart of every tyre size versus tyre brand versus every suspension setup known to man huh? WHERE IS IT? THIS IS WORTHLESS YOU SUCK". Well, crack on sunshine, put your money and your free time into swapping suspension and tyre setups and post up the results. I doubt that'll happen though, as you can't even be arsed to use the shift key or a full stop. -Ian" tbh i expect an apology - bad day at work isn`t an excuse for ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 tbh i expect an apology - bad day at work isn`t an excuse for ignorance. I think you want to drop it mate, you're not going to get anywhere trying to score points from someone who gives alot of his time up for this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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