Matt H Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 ok, I get you now:) What I was trying to say though was that a 328i bmw has 196bhp stock and with a supercharger it can deliver upto stock TT power. I used the 328 as an example as it is similar to a 2JZ GE in capacity and compression and stock power output. I jusst thought the link I posted could help the OP by showing a system currently available that works within a comparable application (a bmw L6) Oh right, with you Suppose they exist because 300bhp is quite attractive to a 328 owner, and the 328 engine probably wasnt enginered to the same standard as the 2JZ so huge gains might not be possible without major block / head work. Its less so to the average supra owner as a change to forced induction on our engines has as trends go been to obtain levels higher than stock TT otherwise its all but pointless bang for buck wise. Still, do-able as shown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Supercharging is viable as a choice simply because the power delivery is completely different. No percieved lag, and boost increases linearly as the revs go up, so it'll just feel like a bigger engine. There are also a few choices on how you go about it, unlike turbos. The roots blowers are mainly for V applications but they are actually the most inefficient design. The half-turbo one (rotrex I think?) is I think the most efficient (but still less so than a turbo). The power increase limit is affected by the same factors as a turbo apart from an additional "how much power does it take to turn the damn thing". A lot of superchargers are light-pressure (5 to 8psi) simply because there is no intercooling for cost and packaging reasons. If you can intercool the charge (or chargecool it with a water to air system, favourable again for packaging and pipe routing reasons) then your boost limits are similar to a turbo. Parasitic losses are higher, of course, due to having to increase the gearing of the 'charger to make the higher boost, and as the supercharger is inherently less efficient than a turbo you'll see pro rata less power for the same boost as the air charge gets heated up more. So, get a rotrex charger on an NA, run the output through a small SMIC or a chargecooler, and run yourself a bar of boost. That should make it feel like a nice 400bhp 6litre NA engine. Nice. I'd love to see a project like that. -Ian PS the superchargers on top fuel dragster take I think something like 1500bhp to turn it'd stall any Supra on this forum haha - I love that factoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Supercharging is viable as a choice simply because the power delivery is completely different. No percieved lag, and boost increases linearly as the revs go up, so it'll just feel like a bigger engine. Well put. That's what interests me about all this. Thank you for a well written reply to a subject that normally goes down the pan within 5 posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why not the best of both worlds, a supercharged TT motor. Retain the stock turbos (for cheapness) and slap a supercharger on to raise the boost. Packaging would be a big issue, but not insurmountable. BPU it, then feed the output of the turbos into the supercharger (compound turbosupercharged ). A more efficient type like the Sprintex screw type supercharger will compress the air slowly (due to the advancing screw action) and increase the pressure more efficiently than other types. I'd like to see the power output of that one http://www.sprintex.com.au/Supercharger_Kits.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why not the best of both worlds, a supercharged TT motor...... or just buy this Nissan March Super Turbo for sale on Driftworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 or just buy this Nissan March Super Turbo for sale on Driftworks. Engine is too small for a Supra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Engine is too small for a Supra but if you put one in the front and one in the back...... and one in the passenger seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You'd have less power than a stock TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Jeez, all that for the same power as my run around! talk about using a hammer to crack a wall-nut! I know its light but thats nuts Edited January 21, 2009 by Matt H (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 You've just got no sense of adventure have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 If you would consider a 1uz swap there seems to be so many more off the shelf options for supercharging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You've just got no sense of adventure have you? He's a crowd pleaser, mods for others rather than for himself, probably best if you put him on ignore. Have you looked over previous supercharger threads? Most seem to fizzle out to nothing but I think one went as far as actually buying and test fitting parts. Personally I think you'd suit a V8 more, once that's in you can supercharge it later, I'd be interested to follow a VVTi SC project though so keep going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You've just got no sense of adventure have you? Sorry if i sound negative mate. Your missing the point tho, i love the idea of a supercharger on a supra, but i'm saying its not for you. Just take a look at all the ball aches i've had with the modiying that is supposed to be common place. I wouldn't like to see you go down the same slope bud thats all. But if you go for it then it would be a great project like i've said. And if it goes well then there will be plenty of people queing up at the NW meets to get a ride in the passenger seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Just take a look at all the ball aches i've had with the modiying that is supposed to be common place. I wouldn't like to see you go down the same slope bud thats all. Fitting dodgy gearboxes isn't exactly common place though... Having cowboys work on your car doesn't help either. Edited January 21, 2009 by Thorin (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Fitting dodgy gearboxes isn't exactly common place though... Having cowboys work on your car doesn't help either. Fitting a dodgy gearbox?.. very odd. Cowboys, yes indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Sounds a good idea, if you have the patients, the modern crop of turbine type superchargers are quite efficient, and are geared as such as to provide good positive pressure from low RPM, you can also change the gearing to suite power delivery, within reason;) Routes or vein type compressors are good but rob more power, which is why they are mainly fitted to large displacement, or big power engines. As for engine choice, VVTI is probably a good one, and everything is more or less in place to deal with the extra pressure, also within reason, and you could possibly get away with even using a piggyback, you would probably notice more low down power lower down by using an N/A motor due to the valve timing etc. Sounds an interesting project:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 It is an interesting idea indeed and why I wanted to have a proper, intelligent thread about it, rather than the usual 'buy a turbo' threads. As it stands, I probably don't have the money to be able to do this justice right now, but I will. Now we actually have some good information here, back to the first question - how much work would be involved in transplanting a VVTI engine into a non-VVTI N/A? Someone mentioned using a Lexus 5 speed auto box as well, that sounds good, but possibly way too much work if the existing Supra gearbox will work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aido Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Don't know if you've already seen this but a guy over on LOC had a supercharger fitted to a UK IS300: http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=47641&hl= There's info in that thread, might be worth dropping him a PM to see what happened. There was another one done as well by one of the ex-TDi techs but it was never completed - shame as it was a nice car as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Cool link, cheers, not read it all yet, but it seems he got 318fwhp @ 7psi off the Vortech charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aido Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 That's it, and looking at the dyno chart using the multiplier they used from rwhp to fwhp the torque was about 261ft.lb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 one of the guys where i work has a supercharged IS200 http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/member.php?u=17836 i know he did quite a bit himself, might be worth contacting as unlike all the previous pie in the sky posters he does actually have some real world experience and is local to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 how much work would be involved in transplanting a VVTI engine into a non-VVTI N/A? If you mean the NA VVTi engine it could be costly as I don't think many of them were made, let alone found their way to these shores. It'll be ECU and wiring loom for sure, and the associated hassle of making the wiring loom match up with whatever you don't swap - don't assume all the connectors or pinouts would be the same between models. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ian the engines won't be in that short a supply (may still be pricey though) as the uk GS300's have them from 98 (roughly) onwards. It helps to have the VVti to get shot of the distributor of the older car as all the conversions need that space to be a straight bolt on conversion but like you say this may introduce some wiring/compatibility problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P 17EED Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is something i keep thinking about. A friend is in the middle of fitting a rotrex to his 306 gti-6. Surely you could replace the a/c compressor with the supercharger, not like you need a/c in this country. Might have to pick his brains a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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