Serious Question About Superchargers

[Animal]

Following on from the thread the other week (the lad wanting to fit a supercharger for 2 grand), it was commented that it's been done quite a lot on the IS200 engine.

 

Firstly, as I'm already looking at replacing my old N/A motor with a less buggered one (still N/A), is it a feasable job to stick in a VVTI engine? I realise that I would have to have at least some of the wiring loom, ecu, etc. but not sure exactly what is involved. It may be just too big a job in itself, I don't know.

 

Secondly, the blower kit itself. Again, I've not really looked into this yet, but it sounds like it's a reasonably common mod on the Lexus in the states, but is there a RHD kit available or would there be more fabrication work to make one fit?

 

Thirdly, would my auto box (a) mate up with the VVTI engine and (b) handle the extra power? Going manual is not an option for me, so that rules out a 5/6 speed conversion.

 

What other things would be required/advisable to fit to support the supercharger and what sort of money would I be looking at to do this all properly?

 

This isn't the standard noob question of "I've bought an N/A, how much power can I get out of it?" I've been here long enough to have seen all those threads and the usual 'fit a turbo instead' replies. I know the tried and tested route would be to just do a TT engine transplant, but I've always liked superchargers for some reason, and like the idea of low down power delivery (yes, I know they loose half their power just running themselves, I don't care) and isn't it about time we try something different?

 

Serious discussions welcome.

[dani_r]

and isn't it about time we try something different?

 

Serious discussions welcome.

 

 

Thank you!! This is exactly what I said the other day after everyone had finished shooting someone down about the supercharger route!

 

I would love to have a supercharged Supra, just partly for the fact that it would be different!

 

I have a 5 Speed manual N/A and I'm also very interested in this idea! Unfortunately I don't have the mechanical knowledge of such systems to make it work! From what I understand though the SC system only works with Vvti engines, is this the case? I guess the first problem would be sourcing the N/A vvti engines!

 

Might it be worth getting in touch with a US forum with people who have completed this mod?

 

Thank you for starting this thread, it's about time someone looked into this properly and made it work!

[merckx]

From what I understand though the SC system only works with Vvti engines, is this the case?

No, they don't just work with vvti engines

[Thorin]

I've bought an N/A, how much power can I get out of it?

 

1 million BHP.

[Animal]

It's not a case of it only works with VVTI engines, I think it's more a case of there's no space to fit one to an older N/A motor as the distributor is in the way, among other things.

 

It is something I would really like to see done, unfortunately, the usual reason for adding superchargers or turbos is to get a big power upgrade and as a result, turbos are by far the best route for cost and deliverable power. The blowers available only up the power to that of a stock TT motor (or there abouts) so, again, why go though the hassle when you can just drop a new engine in for probably far less money and certainly far less work.

 

I don't care about getting monster power, as I said, I've been looking at just getting a new N/A motor, but this is an option I would like to be available.

[Matt H]

I think the issue with superchargers on an supra engine is the fact that it will prob only put out TT power when done, or little over for the expense. Its been stated as one of those things that could be done but just out of novelty.

 

for you mate, i think its a pointless venture as you might as well just get a TT engine.

[dani_r]

No, they don't just work with vvti engines

 

Excellent! I've signed up with the IS300 forum in the hope of getting more info

[Animal]

I think the issue with superchargers on an supra engine is the fact that it will prob only put out TT power when done, or little over for the expense. Its been stated as one of those things that could be done but just out of novelty.

 

for you mate, i think its a pointless venture as you might as well just get a TT engine.

 

That's what I said. I also said it's not about getting big power upgrades. If I wanted that, I would just go for a TT engine swap.

 

What I would like to see is a serious discussion about whether it would be feasable to do for the few of us who want to be different. It's not about the final power output, it's about the engineering and the desire to try something new.

 

Failing that, it's a V8 transplant with a BIG SOD-OFF blower poking through the bonnet, lol.

[Matt H]

That's what I said. I also said it's not about getting big power upgrades. If I wanted that, I would just go for a TT engine swap.

 

What I would like to see is a serious discussion about whether it would be feasable to do for the few of us who want to be different. It's not about the final power output, it's about the engineering and the desire to try something new.

 

Failing that, it's a V8 transplant with a BIG SOD-OFF blower poking through the bonnet, lol.

 

Well anythings do-able in reason with the right money, there is absolutely no reason why a supercharger can't be fitted properly, i just don't know if thats something you should commit to mate. Sounds like a slippery slope.. Plus who would do it?! :tape:

 

Don't get me wrong i'd love to see the out come of a properly installed supercharger but do you want to be the guiniue pig?

[Animal]

1 million BHP.

 

Only if you go to Supra1000's tuner.

[bigbloodyturbo]

People have been supercharging bmw inline 6's for ages but they have no dizzy. Found this

http://www.evo-s.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=6_2096_2222_2229

almost the same capacity as the GE and gives stock TT power and seems to be belt driven and fairly compact.

[Animal]

i just don't know if thats something you should commit to mate. Sounds like a slippery slope.. Plus who would do it?! :tape:

 

Don't get me wrong i'd love to see the out come of a properly installed supercharger but do you want to be the guiniue pig?

 

Well, it's not like I've booked the car in anywhere yet, but, yes, depending on what sort of costs, I'd be more than happy to be the guinea pig. I'm sure many of the traders on here have the skills to do the work required.

[Matt H]

People have been supercharging bmw inline 6's for ages but they have no dizzy. Found this

http://www.evo-s.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=6_2096_2222_2229

almost the same capacity as the GE and gives stock TT power and seems to be belt driven and fairly compact.

 

Thing is, BMW inlines 6's are normally aspirated to start with and have TT without any forced induction. Take away the forced induction element from a TT engine and your no where near BMW inline 6 speeds. your starting with 230bhp

[bigbloodyturbo]

Thing is, BMW inlines 6's are normally aspirated to start with and have TT without any forced induction. Take away the forced induction element from a TT engine and your no where near BMW inline 6 speeds. your starting with 230bhp

 

I dont understand much of what you typed. what do you mean they have TT without forced induction?

[dani_r]

There seems to be plenty of products available for supercharging the 2JZ-GE motor, here's the main one that people on the is300 forum mention a lot:

 

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=144

 

I'm sure with a bit more searching I will find one that someone has done in the states.

[garethr]

I think all the IS300 kits are centrifugal superchargers, and from what I've read, they appear to be the worst of both worlds -- turbo-like power delivery (albeit with no "lag") and they take power to drive.

 

If you wanted to use a positive displacement blower you'd have the problem of where to fit it.

 

All in all, it almost seems that if you want more power from an N/A it would be easier to fit a small-block V8, with the option of a Roots-type 'charger in the V.

 

 

As far as the distributor is concerned, I think I've seen US N/A-Ts converted to coil-on-plug or wasted spark, but that may have been with stand-alone ECUs.

[Scooter]

ok you can buy kits to supercharge an IS300.............

 

so you need to see if you can get the IS300/GS300 vvti engines to work when swapped in your NA. If you swapped the whole engine and gearbox (5 speed auto) ECU and loom then i'd think the main issue left is linking the ECU to the internal Supra loom(probably a nightmare!)

[jim_supra]

I was looking into Supercharging a while back (before I went TT) I didn't look into fitting a vvti engine though, I looked more along the lines of removing the distributor and switching to coil packs so I could fit an IS300 supercharger kit.

 

I got as far as finding out that the main parts I would need were an AEM standalone ECU, IS300 vvt-i coil packs & ignitor, bigger injectors and either a cam postion sensor like the one in the 1st link below or a mk3 cam postition sensor. (second link)

 

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426953&highlight=removing+distributor

 

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347719&highlight=mk3+cps

[Jake]

I dont understand much of what you typed. what do you mean they have TT without forced induction?

I think Matt missed the word "power" out. As in:

 

"they have TT

power

without forced induction"

[Matt H]

I dont understand much of what you typed. what do you mean they have TT without forced induction?

 

I think Matt missed the word "power" out. As in:

 

"they have TT

power

without forced induction"

 

Yes indeed, Sorry about that. I had to nip into a meeting!!

 

 

 

 

I've read that a supercharger in general will give you half as much power again from what you start with. Sooooooo

 

BMW - starting power: 330 (approx) bhp, so thats nearly 500bhp with the SC kit

TT (minus the turbos - so N/A) approx 230 bhp, so thats only 345 bhp with the SC Kit. Less than BPU.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Matt H (see edit history)

[colsoop]

Jim_suporas links seem like an interesting way to get the necessary clearance to run it.

 

If you are looking to be different a supercharger would be but as there is very little support this side of the pond it could become a bit of a mare.

 

You are also going to be the test bed for this which may involve trial and error + £

 

That being said it would be interesting to see how it worked out if you could get it working right.

 

The question is do you have the time and money + patience for it.

[Animal]

Time and patience in abundance. The stumbling block would probably be money. It is the one thing I would love to do though.

[bigbloodyturbo]

Yes indeed, Sorry about that. I had to nip into a meeting!!

 

 

 

 

I've read that a supercharger in general will give you half as much power again from what you start with. Sooooooo

 

BMW - starting power: 330 (approx) bhp, so thats nearly 500bhp with the SC kit

TT (minus the turbos - so N/A) approx 230 bhp, so thats only 345 bhp with the SC Kit. Less than BPU.

 

 

ok, I get you now:)

What I was trying to say though was that a 328i bmw has 196bhp stock and with a supercharger it can deliver upto stock TT power. I used the 328 as an example as it is similar to a 2JZ GE in capacity and compression and stock power output. I jusst thought the link I posted could help the OP by showing a system currently available that works within a comparable application (a bmw L6)

[Konrad]

Contact Shane on this forum. He is not very active these days, but he have done it...

[imi]

, I don't care) and isn't it about time we try something different?

 

and then

 

It is something I would really like to see done,

 

 

unfortunately, the usual reason for adding superchargers or turbos is to get a big power upgrade and as a result, turbos are by far the best route for cost and deliverable power..

 

in that case, why bother?