Chiefgroover Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you said 500BHP I think you'd have a fighting chance of getting within 10% with high octane fuel. 600BHP, not a hope in hell. I kind of feel sorry for you, you put your trust in your tuners and they have been, what you might call.......................full of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Rob will have my first apoligy then.. But if im right ???? Don't forget you said these were stock turbos with bigger internals - i.e. Hybrids... but they're not (and you didn't realise). Also you stated that the car had 650bhp, and it won't have; even your turbo suppliers have said maybe the turbos (not necessarily on you car) could support 300bhp each, but combining two onto one engine doesn't necessarily mean you'll get twice the power of one... I'm not having a pop, but I also suspect they might get 300bhp when strapped to a engine/setup with many more power-supporting modifications than yours seems to have. So if you're right, then you still don't know what you're on about. In all seriousness good luck on Monday I hope it does make big power, but I would try to understand a bit more than you do now; I have a big power Supra and compared to the experts on here I don't jack all, but it's important to have at least an appreciation of what's been done - if nothing else to avoid being taken for a ride in the future (by a less discerning tuner), or pushing any stock components past their limits, for example. Are you still on stock cams? if so thats whats stopping you getting anymore power id say. Nah, check my garage - I copied & pasted the spec from Jake's the other week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you're right, my friend, hell has indeed frozen overthen you'll get an apology off most of the folks in here I imagine. He meant apologise to me, and i didnt stomp off in a huff at all, i just dont care if he makes 500 bhp or 5000, he is still a pillock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraspeed Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 is this 600bhp at the flywheel or at the wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j80leo Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 is this 600bhp at the flywheel or at the wheels? Fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra10000 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 is this 600bhp at the flywheel or at the wheels? flywheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Is it 1st April yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) Well, I just read all posts over all 41 pages in one go. I feel like going outside, finding a chav, and having him kerbstomp me to a horrible end. It seems that all helpful information is quite simply not being taken on board whatsoever! First thing is first, I would like a FULL list of what has been done to the car. Now, you may not know this yourself, but your tuner who has done this fairytale work (I'm being sarcastic before you agree ) will know what he has done. As you stay in contact (you said he'll be attending your RR day on Monday at 9am (reminder for folks nearby )), get him to provide the vehicle's FULL spec please. It has been said by others that all other required modifications to support your turbo arrangement would need to be completely efficient (they won't be) and also of a high calibre to accomodate (injector size (yes, you said 850cc but do you know this?), fuel rail etc. etc. etc. the list goes on) this. That's what I'd like a list of There isn't a lot which I am willing to say that hasn't been asked of you already (pictures, RR (glad you're doing this), spec list). The way I see outrageous claims like this - apologies guys, I'm throwing something in that's controversial to the max for how I am viewing it - is like religion : I'm believing NOTHING until you prove it to me. (Oh I just went there ) Sorry to everyone for not quoting some of the fantastic posts that I have read over the duration of the thread. I saw just a couple that sum things up and I'm going to use them however 1. does it frigging matter where they came from. 2. so far this argument has gone from you cant get that sort of power out of hybids in stock casing, then too cost, then to any point in doing it, and now you say they are from another car so it doesnt count 3. ...sounds like your doubting yourself now and finding summit else to pick at ???? 1. Of course it does! I have a 1.4FSI VW Golf. Now, if I sent the car away to get the engine bored out and I get it back with a 2.0T GTi engine that has been slightly opened up, does it matter that it's different? I could claim 220bhp from it (GTi is 200 stock, my car is 88 stock (sssh ) and everyone would rubbish it saying a bored out 88bhp 1.4 can't get 220bhp. They're right in this instance. But then, if they found out it wasn't my original block at all, that's a whole different story is it not?! 2. All factors are worth arguing. Unless proven, it won't be accepted that you ARE getting that power from stock hybrids, because through much trial and error, no-one else is. Without proof to back it up, it's just fantasy speak! The cost is of curiousity, simply because the cost of going single is roughly known by most, and if you are managing the same power through a wholly different method, people wish to know what this equates to in their hard earned pennies, so they could consider going the same route! For "from a different car so it doesn't count", see number 1. 3. Sounds more to me like you're getting worried about the fact that your claims are completely BS and by throwing in little bits such as that the turbos are infact something completely different to what you led everyone to believe initially, you may worm out of it. Here is 800 bhp The engine in that car looks fantastic, everything LOOKS like it's uprated plenty and, by sheer assumption, I would expect BIG figures from it. However, until I had proof (which is given by the dyno readout) - I have no grounds to believe such a power claim. This is what you need to do and should have had from the start to back up what you believe/what your tuner has fooled you into believing. I could say that by putting a cone filter on my Golf and removing the engine cover with it's integrated air box, I have given myself enormous midrange gains, and in difference of propulsion, I estimate 648bhp at the front wheels. This is proven 100% for sure because I raced against a Ferrari F430 and obliterated it. (That is all jesting for what it's worth, but if you believe what your tuner pal is telling you, that doesn't seem as far fetched as it does to people exhibiting a clue ). Best of luck to you with your graph and I do genuinely hope that your car is anywhere near what you are told it is and that myself, and the majority, are completely wrong in thinking otherwise. I just don't see it happening though I'm afraid! Edited January 13, 2009 by James (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I've changed my mind. Earlier I'd suggested 349 BHP, now I'm not so sure. 339. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiretapper Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If i can i'll book Monday off work and pop down for a look:)Half tempted to get mine on the rollers but i'm only on stock twins and full Bpu though:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flukey-lukey Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If i can i'll book Monday off work and pop down for a look:)Half tempted to get mine on the rollers but i'm only on stock twins and full Bpu though:( I'd put money on yours making more power than Mr 650bhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAT Inter Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If i can i'll book Monday off work and pop down for a look:)Half tempted to get mine on the rollers but i'm only on stock twins and full Bpu though:( And you would still horse this bullsh1t merchant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steady_dave Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 can't................stop...............laughing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If this car makes over 500 mine will be on ebay this time next week, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) Sorry about all the quotes, but it saves me a lot of typing, and thats a pain with a faulty keyboard:( Basically all posted below i agree with or contest, and i think it should be easy for anyone who has an ounce of tuning knowledge to work out which is which;) I wouldnt miss this for the world.....Surely people can see how confident we are. This isnt a wind up im gonna post the results here no matter what they are. And as i said i will put my hand up and say dam i shoulda listened to you guys if im wrong but i really cant see that happening.....im gonna be posting an email here soon about what exactly C R turbos done to mine ( as soon as i get it of them). That alone will prove hundreds wrong as it will show how you can get 600+BHP out of hybrids IF set up right We being CR Turbos, yourself, and who else, is there another tuning company involved in this? So the fact that you cant get 600 BHP out of hybrids is rubbish... Hers a note of CR TURBOS Hi there! Just been back through the paperwork to make sure of what was done. They were CT20's, we reconditioned them, fitted steel shaftwheels and larger compressor wheels. The compressor wheels used were the Garrett T3 55 trim. (which in THEORY can flow over 300hp) I believe that, again, in theory, these units could well do 300 each.But what restrictions the manifolds etc have I couldnt say. I would be delighted to know the results of the rolling road session, please let us know! Best regards Mark CR Turbos So the stock turbos you have apparently had hybridised are not stock! and in fact from another model! So it's dropped from 650bhp to 600bhp now then, as well as it no longer being the original turbos bored out as per your original advert but in fact completely different replacement ones not from a Mk4 Supra? As I said, I've often seen big power figures for hybrid turbo sales - MR2/GT4 hybrids were awful for it (usually the CT26 based ones). I've rarely seen anyone achieve the stated maximums however. Most of those guys wanting the higher level of power usually end up looking at TD06/GT28/GT30 series turbos, rather than trying to stress a smaller turbo. There are people on here with far more knowledge of aerodynamics and turbo theory than me, but even I know that if in theory the turbo is capable of flowing enough air for 325bhp, that doesn't mean you'll get 325bhp. If that is their theoretical maximum in a computer simulation for a single one, it doesn't mean that when you add another you can just double it and add a bit. For a start airflow into the turbo will not be perfect and charge temperatures will not be completely optimal. Thats only worrying about there being one. Also, if this has cost you so much money to get to this point, how is it any better than a single conversion - when the single conversion will be simpler to work on and you can recoup money from the sales of bits you no longer need? The single also leaves room for an upgrade later Agreed! This has got to be one of the best threads ever. What meaning of the word STOCK don't you understand? If you say you have stock turbos, then you have what IS ALWAYS fitted to THAT SPECIFIC MODEL OF CAR. You could have stock turbos from a Leyland bus, but you would say "Upgraded with bus turbos" I'm almost sorry for you as you clearly have no knowledge of cars and believe everything you've been told. It's almost worth the day off work and the long drive to see this dyno run... Also agreed! yeah 10000 views but not one modification company has been in touch or anyone actually asking him to explain what exactly hes done...... Can you honestly see them taking this entirely seriously, its a very obscure route that requires far to much time and effort, that can be achieved far more effectively and cheaply by easier well known means. Oh, so very disappointing. I've just caught up, and they're not hybrids from mkiv stockers at all? So 95% of this entire debate has been based on completely false information. Bummer. Exactly! Oh come on will you ...like i said i have little knowledge of cars so how the heck am i to know how to word it....as far as i was concered they bored my stock turbos out and replaced with bigger ones that were still inside my STOCK casings Except they didnt. They bored out turbos off another car. What else can you say;) does it frigging matter where they came from. so far this argument has gone from you cant get that sort of power out of hybids in stock casing, then too cost, then to any point in doing it, and now you say they are from another car so it doesnt count...sounds like your doubting yourself now and finding summit else to pick at ???? Well it does simply because you came here making these claims for stock MK IV Supra hybridised turbos, and quite a lot of people who have gone this route, including myself, KNOW that the figures quoted are impossible, for reasons that you have proved that you're obviously incapable of understanding. You will make a bit more out of those turbos, and i think it may well be as much as 500BHP,if the restrictive stock Y pipe has been drastically modified, but they are a long way from hybridised stock, as you first claimed. So all bets are off, and i would still be very interested to know who it is that is doing all the work and tuning, he seems reluctant to come on here and risk being quizzed? Edited January 13, 2009 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I 'think' I would like you all to play nicely. Yes, some iffy info has been bandied about. But the abuse this guy has taken time and time again has been staggering. I would have walked away long before this, but then I wouldnt have fought my corner quite so hard. The turbos are not stock hybrids. I think we can safely say that now. But a pair of CT20s is interesting so lets see how this works out. Its not something I have heard being done before and may be an interesting way forward. So lets all play nice and once the power figures are seen we can all chat about it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 i don,t give a monkeys what it makes, the guys a legend in my book, standing up to you bullys and still standing:d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Please let it make 650 i could make some huge money on humble pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 omg this is still going there is no way this car is going to make that 650 bhp and we all no it that is if this is all real! good bedtime read tho keep you coming back to catch up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihwaan Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 this one is right up there with all the other fabled bedtime stories I loved as a kid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Imagine in the time that this thread has been going on for, he has secretly fitted a single conversion kit, just to get the 650bhp figures. That would be classic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraAyf Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Imagine in the time that this thread has been going on for, he has secretly fitted a single conversion kit, just to get the 650bhp figures. That would be classic! It would indeed mate. He may have taken the easy option though and has added an Aeromotive FPR or something - I hear they add an extra 50BHP:D Turbo Technics Blue engine hosing adds 35 more:taped: My polished cam covers streamline the engine bay by all accounts and are worth an extra 30 horses - I bet you thickies didn't know that:Pling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I 'think' I would like you all to play nicely. Yes, some iffy info has been bandied about. But the abuse this guy has taken time and time again has been staggering. I would have walked away long before this, but then I wouldnt have fought my corner quite so hard. The turbos are not stock hybrids. I think we can safely say that now. But a pair of CT20s is interesting so lets see how this works out. Its not something I have heard being done before and may be an interesting way forward. So lets all play nice and once the power figures are seen we can all chat about it then. i don,t give a monkeys what it makes, the guys a legend in my book, standing up to you bullys and still standing:d Threads like this are a personality test for some, and didnt it show some people well maybe thats what this whole thing is about. Some less experienced people need corrected and a thick ear isnt really the best way to go about it. There was a time when some of the most condescending here knew S.F.A about tuning supras and they had to learn too. Just unfortunate this guy has probably had to learn the very expensive and well conned way, in an industry where many are just there for a fast financial kill as we have seen before. If he has spent that much, trusted some sharks and got a set of average hybrids then he IMO should be shown pity. What are we here for? a boys snigger and taunt club or to help those owners who need it the most?. Thats me back in the flame path lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 If he has spent that much, trusted some sharks and got a set of average hybrids then he IMO should be shown pity. What are we here for? a boys snigger and taunt club or to help those owners who need it the most?. A lot of us have tried to point out in a polite way that his tuner's claims may have been optimistic and that he has been left holding the torch in terms of the figures quoted - there have been some very supportive posts. However, he does come back and refute knowledgeable posts from very experienced people on here with little or no info or figures to back it up. A lot of us hope that he does attain a healthy figure, none of us would like to think of ourselves shelling out such a large sum of money to end up with the sort of power that BPU would have delivered quite easily for a fraction of the cost (and I know that a lot of peole on here have found themselves in just that position which is why they can speak with such knowledge). It is sad that some posters have just taken to bashing him without really reading the initial posts or the eBay ad to get the full info but that's pretty much par for the course. To give him his credit he is putting the car on a dyno to settle his tuner's claims (not his) of the power hike rather than doing what a lot do on here which is throw their toys out and run away. In his defence, he has never claimed that the car has 650bhp, merely that his tuners have told him that with these mods his car could be tuned to 650bhp - he's just repeating what he's been told - so don't shoot the messenger. We all want to believe what we're told by 'experts' as it makes us feel all warm and fuzzy but until you have experience of been led up the occasional dark alley and mugged you just carry on defending them. The 'stock' turbo issue seems to be that he believes what was on the car when HE bought it was stock, not that they were the stock items bolted on by Mr Toyota. Here again is where a lack of knowledge can land you in the doo doo. But he has stepped back and said that thats fair enough, he was wrong, they're not 'stock' as we know it. As we're all Supra owners we hope that your money has been well spent and a lot of the comments on here are trying to protect you and prepare you for the potential disappointment of being given arbitary power figures with nothing but a guess to back it up and then sitting back and looking at your depleted bank balance and wondering how you could have fallen for the hype but believe me when I say that none of us wants this for you because some of us have been there and we know its pretty depressing. I wouldn't have painted it yellow though!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Go do some runs at Santa Pod, tell us how you get on. I'll judge the power based on your terminal speeds Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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