supRo Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hello, I've just ordered the above... Can anyone tell me of the performance gains on the above? Is that a decent intercooler? Apparantly the manifold is 40% increase over stock. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Intercoolers don't give any performance gain. manifold is 40% increase over stock. 40% of what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supRo Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Intercoolers don't give any performance gain. 40% of what? I thought as an intercooler reduces the intake tempreture therfore more power? I maybe talking crap here The ported manifold is 40% increase in inside volume over stock manifold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Intercoolers don't give any performance gain. 40% of what? Err...I think that Jake meant they (as in they themselves) do not add more fuel etc - the decreased temps they bring etc etc etc...you know the rest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Thanks Paul, perhaps you can put me straight on this. I didn't think lowering the charge temp actually gives any more power. As I understand it, cooling the charge allows you to run higher boost more safely. Obviously it doesn't actually increase the boost, so they're a supporting mod rather than one that increases power. Is that right? supRo, Are you running a single turbo or stock J-spec ones, or what? I was under the impression that you needed to be making big power before a modded intake was really beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supRo Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'm running stock turbos at 1.0 bar at the moment, getting 352 bhp on the hub. Pete from thor recommended an intercooler especially for the summer. He said that I would see power drop a little in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'll have a stab at this. If you reduce the temp of the inlet charge you get a more dense charge therefore better volumetric efficiency, thats why some people report the car as being a little bit more responsive on a cold winters morning rather than in summer. Is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Lowing the charge temperatures does increase power, as the air is denser and therefore contains more oxygen. Have you ever felt how much quicker your car feels in the winter compared to a hot summers day. I'm sure I must get at least a 10% increase in power on the coldest days in HK (8C) compared to the hottest days (38C.) This is also why people report a loss in power after fitting a cone filter, as the engine is taking in hotter air from the engine bay. Saying this fitting an intercooler will only give a small power increase, which you will probably hardly notice. As Jake says the main benefit is that you can run higher boost more safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supRo Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Cool, cheers for the info guys, So, is the Greddy VPL Intercooler a good one to go for? And has anyone had experiences of a Polished Modified Inlet Manifold ? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kghelmet Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 I'll have a stab at this. If you reduce the temp of the inlet charge you get a more dense charge therefore better volumetric efficiency, thats why some people report the car as being a little bit more responsive on a cold winters morning rather than in summer. Is that right? and as any of us ex calibra turbo owners know a crap intercooler equals no power on hot days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 and as any of us ex calibra turbo owners know a crap intercooler equals no power on hot days. Totally agree... my Cali Turbo always ran hot coz it constantly exploded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Cool, cheers for the info guys, So, is the Greddy VPL Intercooler a good one to go for? And has anyone had experiences of a Polished Modified Inlet Manifold ? Cheers What make is the inlet manifold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Cool, cheers for the info guys, And has anyone had experiences of a Polished Modified Inlet Manifold ? Cheers Which one did you go for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Doh! too slow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supRo Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Mine! That's the fella! Just wanting to get a feel of experiences people have had with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Mine! Defo not worth it then, get ya money back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=34698&highlight=manifold One on Dude's car too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Hello, I've just ordered the above... Can anyone tell me of the performance gains on the above? Is that a decent intercooler? Apparantly the manifold is 40% increase over stock. Cheers The intercooler will give you nothing unless you change the fueling to take advantage, or up your boost as has been said above. Likewise, I suspect that the polished intake manifold will give you absolutely nothing on WOT and maybe a little weeny bit off boost. Intake manifold tuning isn't anywhere near as much of an issue on forced induction cars as it is on NAs. Even then is more down to runer lengths than plenum volume. 40% performance increase for just opening up and polishing the manifold internals is a crazy claim (IMHO of course). I'm prepared to be shot down with a "before and after" dyno test, though. I don't want to p*ss anyone off here, but I think the claims being made about this product are way out of left field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Thanks Paul, perhaps you can put me straight on this. I didn't think lowering the charge temp actually gives any more power. As I understand it, cooling the charge allows you to run higher boost more safely. Obviously it doesn't actually increase the boost, so they're a supporting mod rather than one that increases power. Is that right? The wastegate system attempts to maintain pressure at one level, e.g. 1.2bar of boost. If the intake air charge is made colder, by it being a colder day, a bigger turbo, or a more efficient intercooler, the air contracts (opposite to it expanding when it heats up etc etc). Pressure therefore goes down (again, opposite to heating). So the wastegate system lets the turbos spin faster until the desired boost level is reached. So although the boost pressure remains the same, the amount of air reaching the engine (and therefore burnable oxygen) is increased. This would actually be problematic if the ECU didn't know what the air temp was, but the J-spec has an air temp sensor in the intake plenum (the shiny bit in this post ) so the ECU can compensate with more fuel due to lower intake temps. I think the MAF based cars use a temp sensor in the MAF sensor itself, but how that takes into account the turbo and intercooler I don't know, maybe it also has the plenum temp sensor but then why have one in the MAF...? Anyway. Upshot of this is, lowering the intake temps is a *very* good way of increasing power, providing the ECU can compensate for the drop in temps. This is interesting with a BPU car as anything over 1bar = 100% duty cycle, so if it needs more fuel due to colder temperatures, it can't be supplied. People may think that airflow signal mapping could be tripped up by this as you can't adjust the fuelling depending on temperature, but in my experience the stock ECU's compensation for air temps translate across to the airflow map and bigger injectors nicely -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 This would actually be problematic if the ECU didn't know what the air temp was, but the J-spec has an air temp sensor in the intake plenum (the shiny bit in this post ) so the ECU can compensate with more fuel due to lower intake temps. I think the MAF based cars use a temp sensor in the MAF sensor itself, but how that takes into account the turbo and intercooler I don't know, maybe it also has the plenum temp sensor but then why have one in the MAF...? Anyway. -Ian Dude, What's important is mass airflow. The mass of air on the atmospheric side and the pressurised side will always be the same, so the MAF meter will always report the correct amount of air entering the engine. I think the temp sensors in hot-wire MAF meters are there for some sort of internal compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 After the last three posts, ^^^^^^^, I think this thread needs moving to "Technical". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supRo Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 Does anyone have the VPL Intercooler fitted? What do you think of it? And ported Inlet Manifold - can anyone tell me of the difference it has made to theirs? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Does anyone have the VPL Intercooler fitted? What do you think of it? And ported Inlet Manifold - can anyone tell me of the difference it has made to theirs? Cheers Speak to dude regarding the manifold mate - he has one fitted to his car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 The VPL is the cheap 2 row FMIC with e 2.5in piping thats been on ebay a lot lately for £500, right? I can't comment on that one but I did notice a reasonable performance increase at high rpm (5.5k+) after changing to a Greddy 3-row FMIC. It dyno'd 387bhp with a knackered stock IC, using the 'seat of pants' dyno I would guess the FMIC made this up to 400bhp. Not that I'm an expert but I can't see how that intake manifold would increase bhp, possibly the only benefit would be to increase the power off boost or while the turbo is spooling (more air available before positive boost is reached). Probably someone more technical will be able to explain this better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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