Soop Dogg Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 So the Indian company Tata buys Jaguar/Land Rover in June of this year. 6 months down the line they're saying that they're facing "unprecedented trading conditions" and it seems that without help, they'll have to make redundancies. (Meanwhile Tata are also saying that they will be sponsoring the Ferrari F1 team for an undisclosed amount) So what do you think? Should we be expected to foot the bill to bail out what is essentially an Indian company, even if it does employ 15,000 people in the UK? I myself am sceptical - Who's to say that if we give them a few billion quid they won't shut down the UK plants within the next couple of years to make the cars more cheaply in India anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazB Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Private company, private money to fund it I don't want to spend my money on it. If the goverment as got some spare cash please send it my way not over to India Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 No, fuck'em. If the Indian government wants to bail them out then I have no beef but certainly not the UK government. Yes it'd be a pity that two 'British' marques will go to the wall but it isn't like they would take the economy with them like any of the global makers. Tata have clearly seen that the UK is a soft touch and want a low interest loan. Having said that, they could go to Halifax and ask for the Billion at 12% apr like everybody else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 No no nope nope no. Where do the bailouts stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2o2 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Exactly , screw them . As Gaz said everyone thinks....knows the uk is a soft touch and expect use to just bend over for them . When will the Government grow some balls and tell them all to run and jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 So the Indian company Tata buys Jaguar/Land Rover in June of this year. 6 months down the line they're saying that they're facing "unprecedented trading conditions" and it seems that without help, they'll have to make redundancies. (Meanwhile Tata are also saying that they will be sponsoring the Ferrari F1 team for an undisclosed amount) So what do you think? Should we be expected to foot the bill to bail out what is essentially an Indian company, even if it does employ 15,000 people in the UK? I myself am sceptical - Who's to say that if we give them a few billion quid they won't shut down the UK plants within the next couple of years to make the cars more cheaply in India anyway? You already know what the answer is. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Not sure I see the point. If it's just the 15,000 people we're worried about, can't we just let them be made redundant and give them the bail-out cash directly? They're talking about £1bn - that would be about £65k each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 The only reason the banks were bailed out is because they make up a significant proportion of the workforce and GDP contributions, and are a major back bone to the uk's economy. Unfortunately Jaguar and Land Rover do not fit into the above. It's time to put the cat to sleep I'm afraid. No amount of financial anaesthetic will help it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 It's a No from me. Governments bailing out private companies (with the possible exception of some banks: I'll save that discussion for later) or propping up markets (e.g. UK housing market) with taxpayer's money will only postpone the inevitable. And when you postpone the inevitable, the effect is worse when it finally does come crashing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Exactly , screw them . As Gaz said everyone thinks....knows the uk is a soft touch and expect use to just bend over for them . When will the Government grow some balls and tell them all to run and jump. Not just the UK govt. Exactly the same is happening in the US with the big 3 car makers. But I agree. The government simply doesn't have the resources to support a massive private company, and shouldn't be asked to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 F@%K em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 What is interesting are that these two companies felt the £400 road tax plan harder than any other companies. Both were in trouble before August 2007 because of their eco credentials by the great unwashed, yogurt weavers and the government themselves. Wasn't the master plan for us to give up our SUV's & luxury cars and sports cars and feel all smug in 120g/km ecoboxes? If the government save them they will also look like the hugely hypocritical incompetents they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/jaguar-to-keep-making-cars-no%11one-can-afford-200812181468/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr lover Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/jaguar-to-keep-making-cars-no%11one-can-afford-200812181468/ That annoys me. Did no-one in the government study economics and free market theory and analysis. You can't keep interfering with the markets as it just prolongs the inevitable. Minor injections, fine - multi billion injections to a inefficient car company - no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I understand why we should bail out a bank but not a car firm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 They are only in trouble because they aren't selling enough units. A company making unwanted product goes down. Simple. Heck, if we do bail them, it'll be with borrowed money anyway. Where will it be borrowed from? China or India (!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Jaguar Land Rover are hardly the bedrock of British industry anymore. This isn't the 1970s. I imagine that in the US, most cars you see on the road are Ford, Chrystler or GM. In the UK, very few cars are Land Rovers or Jags. Even more reason not to bail them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Jaguar Land Rover are hardly the bedrock of British industry anymore. This isn't the 1970s. I imagine that in the US, most cars you see on the road are Ford, Chrystler or GM. In the UK, very few cars are Land Rovers or Jags. Even more reason not to bail them out. Think the nail went down in 1 swoop with that comment. If we are all so rational I don't understand why the government comes up with these brain dead ideas and policies. Maybe they know something we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I doubt it, Drowning know bugger all about sod all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 There is a petition to not bail them unless they sell it back to the UK :- http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/JaguarLandRover/ I think a simple NO petition would be better, shall we start one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Its a forgone conclusion. Of course they will. I bags first dibs on a Vogue as that is what I consider will be MY share of the baleout. Tw@ts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy W Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 No. Jaguars are sh!t anyway and it's not as though they won't be back manufacturing in a couple of years anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 It'll be a total and utter farce if this goes ahead. I don't know one single person who thinks this is a good idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 It might be a good idea if part of the deal says that JLR have to use UK-based Engineering consultancies and service industries exclusively for a set number of years, rather than farming it out to China, India, Europe or wherever. I.e. the UK bail out cash stays within the UK economy. Many "developing" economies have very strict controls on how much of their profit can leave the country. Why shouldn't we do the same? They may not be the cornerstone of the UK economy like the Big Three are in the US, but a bit of political manoevering might be able to use it as a lever to help a wider spectrum of businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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