Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Hello everyone. Since few people are doing what I am doing back in landcruiserville I thought this was the best community to ask about turbo sizing and turbine A/R for a toyota straight six. It the 4.5 DOHC straight six in my FZJ80 Landcruiser. I built a pretty mean 2g mitsusheeti GSX a while back with a GT35R.. I could not keep a clutch or a trans or t case in the car at the same time. You either killed one or another. So I sold it and a sportbike I had and bought a better sportbike (Ducati) and a landcuiser that has proven itself to be the toughest and classiest truck I have ever had. My plans include ARP head studs, head work (pocket porting and a clean up shave), SCE ICS titan gasket and more. So lets just kick around the turbo selection please. I looked at garretts compressor maps.. The GT4088R series looks like the best option. A GT37 is a bit small as is a GT35R. I think given the mass flow rate that I could be running too close to the choke line with a GT35R at lower pressure ratios. The redline on this long stroker is much lower than your engines and I do want to boost come on not too far off idle RPM but still hold to redline. So what A/R on the turbine housing, I am thinking .81 I know I have more displacement but upsizing the A/R to spool at the same point it would on a supra would be pointless due to how soon the rev limit would be hit after that and counterproductive to a good four wheeling power band. "Peripherals" The best option for a manifold is the turbonetics 30524 manifold. So the turbine housing will need to be T4 four bolt and it will have an external gate on the manifold. I will be running an aftermarket 3" mandrel bent exhaust intended for a HDJ80 (turbodiesel) as it fits the chasis just fine and only the start of the downpipe will need to be modded to mate with the tubo and wastegate dump. Hey I am an AMT (Aviation Maintenance Technician). I can TIG weld to aerospace standards.. I will put a double slip joint and a v-band attatchment on the ends of the pipes where they meet the turbine outlet and the wg outlet. For an intercooler I am leaning towards air to water becaue I dont want to end up with a bashed up expensive air to air intercooler. There are drawbacks to it I know. But a cooler for the systems liquid would be easier to package around my bull bar bumper and hydraulic winch. It would also be cheaper to replace once the sticks and stones of wheeling brake its bones. If I put a hole in it I will just splice the lines together and drive it back to pavement and home.. Its tougher to make a trail repair on a air to air system. Oh and yes the transmission is worked over and has a huge transcooler installed. Some others who have done it. This is a middle east version of the 80 series at 19psi, this truck has a RWD mode.. Mine is AWD with electronic lockers front rear and center. I wont be trying for burnouts like this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 If you are putting so much money into the motor, dont scrimp on the turbo or ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I was not planning on it. That was not much help in the turbine A/R or compressor sizing end of things BTW. I ran AEM in the 2g DSM AWD. I am not sure what I will use on the cruiser yet. It will be a full blown stand alone EMS with a wideband o2 and a target air fuel ratio map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Do more research into the GT4088 and how it fails, then ask me to size you a turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 On a supra a .81 ar works well on the GT4088 giving full boost at around 3000rpm in top gear and will make around 600bhp. What power output are you looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I have just seen the journal bearings wearing out fast. I am looking at a Ball Bearing CHRA.. Garrett PN 751470-1 a .85 a/r http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/turbo_comparison_sheet.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) For some both have failed (journal and dbb units, i broke 3 journal gt4088's) but these tend to have been U.S. imported turbos as mine was, SteveL is running a uk garrett turbo on his time attack with no problems so far. Its not the bearings that are failing, its the blades. Edited December 8, 2008 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 On a supra a .81 ar works well on the GT4088 giving full boost at around 3000rpm in top gear and will make around 600bhp. What power output are you looking for? The people I have talked to that have the most expertise with the motor say that 600 is about as far as I should push it. They say that stock rods can handle 600 just fine with good tuning so long as you dont up the rev limit. The stresses of RPM combined with the long stroke are far worse than the compressive stress of boosting. So 600 is the max I would try. Its starting to push the limits of a 3" exhaust as well at that point. So no more than 600 but more than likely in the 500-600 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Do more research into the GT4088 and how it fails, then ask me to size you a turbo Mine has been pumping over 600bhp for over a year including six track days. Had it apart a month ago and the hotside is pristine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 The people I have talked to that have the most expertise with the motor say that 600 is about as far as I should push it. They say that stock rods can handle 600 just fine with good tuning so long as you dont up the rev limit. The stresses of RPM combined with the long stroke are far worse than the compressive stress of boosting. So 600 is the max I would try. Its starting to push the limits of a 3" exhaust as well at that point. So no more than 600 but more than likely in the 500-600 range. A .81 undivided will do the job, but if it was me spending my money i would either go with a boostlogic T67DBB or a HKS T04z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Maybe something from the B/W turbo catalog ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Mine has been pumping over 600bhp for over a year including six track days. Had it apart a month ago and the hotside is pristine. Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) I know of one guy who had a HKS T04Z on one. I do equate HKS with inflated prices... I could get both cams for the 4g63 from comp for what one HKS was and independant dynos put the comps ahead... Just saying that HKS can mean HK$.. I wont have the unfiltered compressor inlet but a safari snorkel. Mine is green and I have not put a snorkel on yet. Edited December 8, 2008 by FZJ801FEFZturbo Broken link (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I know of one guy who had a HKS T04Z on one. I do equate HKS with inflated prices... I could get both cams for the 4g63 from comp for what one HKS was and independant dynos put the comps ahead... Just saying that HKS can mean HK$.. Is your manifold divided or undivided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 BL is a good turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) Its undivided. Edited December 8, 2008 by FZJ801FEFZturbo Pics (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Id go with an undivided BL T67 dbb on a .68 ar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) Looks like they use a PTE T67.. I will just get it from precision turbo and engine like my the last turbo I bought. Yep PTE is the way to go. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=165183&highlight=gt4088r Check the last post there. I think a PTE GT4088R Edited December 9, 2008 by FZJ801FEFZturbo (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 If you were this side of the pond I've got a T04R HKS unit that needs bearing replacement you could have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) I took the GT4088R Compressor map and plotted the demand at two pressure ratios and three RPMs. PR's of 1.74 and 2.25. I attatched a file with lines plotted. At a PR of 2.25 (18.5psi) at 6000 rpm it is off the map. At 5500 rpm it is just in there. It could use a compressor that could move a bit more air to be on the safe side, but maybe not.... The VE approximation does not take into effect the VE changing with RPM. I am guessing that for a long stroker like the 1FZ-FE that it wont really need quite that much air as it approaches the rev limiter. So it could well operate fine in reality with the real engines VE. The dark lines are the 2.25 PR, There is a another set for 1.74 PR a lighter shade, I should have used another color as they are tough to see. 1.74 around 11psi. Deck pressure (aviation term) pressure all depends on the actual air pressure at the inlet and the pressure drop across the intercooler. A filter system will bring the pressure at the inlet down below atmospheric pressure a bit and I need the snorkel and a good filter for this application. Then there is a drop between manifold absolute pressure and deck pressure (PSIa) from the throttle plate restriction. This link will take you to the tables for my displacement, approximate VE and RPM range.. http://cybrina.mine.nu:8080/WebModule2/compcalc?size=4.5&ve=90&boost=20&maxrpm=6000&Submit=Submit Edited December 10, 2008 by FZJ801FEFZturbo (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I found this calculator to be quite handy. http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml After entering all the stats a GT42 looks good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FZJ801FEFZturbo Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) The GT4088R is looking better based on the numbers from this calculator. The demand calculated for the top end was not as great. I think it takes into account the bore and stroke in addition to the other data. I calculated 1.75 PR and a 2.25 PR of for 2000 to 5500 rpm in 500rpm steps and I also did one for 5800 the when the rev limiter kicks in. Then I connected the two for each RPM.. Link to my stats in calculator http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml?FeetASL=0&Tamb=21&Bore=100&Stroke=95&nCyl=6&RPM=2500&VE=67&Boost=10.5&Ec=78&Eic=70&PdropIC=0.5&TambIC=21&wiPercentMethanol=00&wiRate=100&wiTemp=21&SFC=0.49&AFR=13.3&maxInjectorDutyCycle=85 Front end view of the beast http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2614/truckfrontpubfl2.th.jpg Edited December 11, 2008 by FZJ801FEFZturbo (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I found this calculator to be quite handy. http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml After entering all the stats a GT42 looks good That's a nice worksheet! I back calculated the results from my car, and it was pretty much spot on - added to my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I know little about tuning and turbo choice but would like to say that this thread has been a really interesting read thus far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.