converting j spec turbos to uk spec and BPU++

[StuartW]

I want to do this to run 1.4 bar rather than 1.2.

 

What do i have to do to convert?

 

I see the UK ones have 2 wastegates rather than one...how does this affect plumbing? I guess i control it all with the Blitz boost controller?

 

I have the following set up to hopefully achieve around 440hp with nice reliable road/Track set-up

Please correct me if i am wrong!

 

HKS 264 264 cams

UK turbo conversion

Blitz boost controller

Greddy emanage Blue

650cc or i have 800cc injectors

FMIC with 3" pipework out side of FMIC

Full J Spec de-cat with 4" Apexi

ARP head bolts (Is this necessary on this boost level?)

Adjustable FPR

HKS top feed fuel rail using top feed Inj

Fuel flutter valve delete

PHR tripple pump hanger with -12 lines 2 walboro 255lph's (Overkill but they are fitted from my GT35R kit.

 

Do i need an FCD if i am running a Emanage Blue?

 

I notice the uk spec and j spec have a cast exhaust piece that forms the 2 port outlet 2 into one just as it goes to the 3 bolt on the first de-cat. I have found these are not interchangeable,

 

So my J spec first de-cat will not fit the UK tubbies!?

 

Has anyone overcome this problem?

 

Thanks all

[Luka-P]

I can only think of getting a UK decat, cheapest and easiest way. You'll get some money back if you sell your JSpec one. No other way round it dude, just had a think about it. I'd recommend the head studs as a matter of course.

[Ian C]

I want to do this to run 1.4 bar rather than 1.2.

 

Hybrids are the way to go for this, but it's not cheap and results vary. Personally I had great results out of mine, and they have gone through 2 or 3 other people since and are still going strong. I wouldn't switch the UK specs as they are pretty much all the bad points of hybrids without the good ones.

 

I see the UK ones have 2 wastegates rather than one...how does this affect plumbing?

 

That's wrong While there are differences between UK and J-spec turbos, "number of wastegates" certainly isn't one of them. Methinks you are getting one confused with the exhaust gas bypass valve on turbo #2 (the rearmost). Which j-specs have as well.

 

In italics below are my thoughts on your choices:

HKS 264 264 cams - Yes

UK turbo conversion - No, see previous answer

Blitz boost controller - Yes

Greddy emanage Blue - Yes

650cc or i have 800cc injectors - 550s would do, 650s are doable with an EMB, 800 are far too big for the application and at the limit of the the EMB can handle

FMIC with 3" pipework out side of FMIC - Yes

Full J Spec de-cat with 4" Apexi - Yes

ARP head bolts (Is this necessary on this boost level?) - No, heck you wouldn't need them at 600bhp

Adjustable FPR - No

HKS top feed fuel rail using top feed Inj - only if you had to because of the injector choice, but then you have to get fittings (expensive) and the adjustable FPR as the stock one will no longer fit, so it'd be cheaper just to get drop-in injectors

Fuel flutter valve delete - No, and I assume you mean the Fuel Pulsation Dampener?

PHR tripple pump hanger with -12 lines 2 walboro 255lph's (Overkill but they are fitted from my GT35R kit. - Good christ above no, that's beyond overkill, completely ridiculous, go back to stock with a walbro or Bosch and flog it

 

Do i need an FCD if i am running a Emanage Blue?

 

No.

 

I notice the uk spec and j spec have a cast exhaust piece that forms the 2 port outlet 2 into one just as it goes to the 3 bolt on the first de-cat. I have found these are not interchangeable,

 

So my J spec first de-cat will not fit the UK tubbies!?

 

Has anyone overcome this problem?

 

Correct - the turbos won't fit your exhaust manifold or anything beyond them up to the mid section of the exhaust pipe. People have overcome this problem by 'not fitting UK spec turbos'

 

-Ian

Edited December 6, 2008 by Ian C
got something wrong (see edit history)

[dandan]

I wouldn't switch the UK specs as they are pretty much all the bad points of hybrids without the good ones.

 

 

 

Ian - what did you mean by this?

[Scott]

Ian - what did you mean by this?

 

I'm guessing laggy without the same benefit of a fair bit more power.

[dandan]

But the UK turbine wheels are smaller than J specs so in theory they should be less laggy than steel bladed (Hybrid) jap turbos.

 

I'm not arguing...I'm just interested in what Ian means.

[StuartW]

So I have the option of Envy Hybrids at a good price. I called Gaz Walker and he was pretty vague on the full specs and advantages of these!

 

"They give great gains over J spec but small gains over UK spec"

 

The hybrids DO have 360 degree dual thrust ball bearings but thats as far as the tech info went:rolleyes:

anybody know any more? Apparently they keep it a close guarded secret but that does not convince me to purchase!

 

I can obtain used good tested UK spec for £250

or as new hybrids for £1000 ish.

 

Seems a better option to go for the uk's and fab my own Downpipe

[tDR]

Stick to stock J Spec ceramics or go small single (tee hee) if you actually want to see a gain over them. Boosting anything stock or stock derived at 1.4bar is pointless to me - I think I've proven why at the strip, there's no real performance gain IMO over 1.2 bar.

 

I apologise in advance for ruining the lucrative hybrids market.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[dude]

Stick to stock J Spec ceramics or go small single (tee hee) if you actually want to see a gain over them. Boosting anything stock or stock derived at 1.4bar is pointless to me - I think I've proven why at the strip, there's no real performance gain IMO over 1.2 bar.

 

I apologise in advance for ruining the lucrative hybrids market.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

 

I see from the drag times list im still the fastest on UK turbos, these were hybrids and quite laggy, id definatly stick to the J-Specs or go single. I was convinced id run an 11 something on the J-Specs but they expired before i could, at least someone proved it could be done.

[wile e coyote]

Mate L33 has some hybrids going cheap a real bergain ,brand new

[Scott]

Think thats the one's he is on about.

[Ian C]

The UK specs are laggier than J-specs. The turbine wheels are smaller presumably to counteract the higher inertia in them and minimise the extra lag that using steel caused. While they are more durable at higher boost pressures, the smaller size means they are less efficient. So really, no gain to be had.

 

If you hybridise the j-specs you'll get more lag but will be able to flow 1.4bar of boost with a noticeable power gain. If it's done properly. Whether it's worth it is up to you, but I'd deffo say that just switching to UK specs and expecting them to perform like j-spec hybrids is a loser from the start.

 

Don't forget all the other bits you need if you go UK spec - manifold, downpipe, not sure about the EGCV bit?

 

-Ian

[StuartW]

Okay i have chewed over all the options and i am still unsure?

 

I am tempted to just run my J specs at 1.1 bar and be happy with the improvements from cams and other above mentioned mods.

 

I want this set up for road and track use. I DO love the surge of single power but i fancie the TT route as i originally had a J spec tt full de cat 350hp@ 1.1 bar, then i foolishly removed the restrictor ring and put on a trust airinx induction kit..i then found 1.5 bar but an un-drivable power curve before i mangled it into an Armco (See my garage) hence from there i searched for a drivable power curve with small single.

 

And i know i was lucky not to blow up the ceramics

 

SO looking for something in between BPU and GT35R 400-440 hp...

 

Am i right in thinking hybrids IS the way foreword?

[L33]

yes it is the only way forward!!!!! buy my tubbys

[wile e coyote]

Yes lees hybrids

[L33]

well they are new and stu and you aint to far from me to pick them up, cant see the downside? wil even let you take the injectors i know you dont want them but you can make some money selling them on?

[bodilx6]

Okay i have chewed over all the options and i am still unsure?

 

I am tempted to just run my J specs at 1.1 bar and be happy with the improvements from cams and other above mentioned mods.

 

I want this set up for road and track use. I DO love the surge of single power but i fancie the TT route as i originally had a J spec tt full de cat 350hp@ 1.1 bar, then i foolishly removed the restrictor ring and put on a trust airinx induction kit..i then found 1.5 bar but an un-drivable power curve before i mangled it into an Armco (See my garage) hence from there i searched for a drivable power curve with small single.

 

And i know i was lucky not to blow up the ceramics

 

SO looking for something in between BPU and GT35R 400-440 hp...

 

Am i right in thinking hybrids IS the way foreword?

 

 

I think this is a very interesting build for many of us. Please do document and give rough priceing of what you find. Also if would be sooo interesting to see a dyno sheet of BPU vs. BPU with cams vs. hybrids

 

I'm would love to move a bit further than BPU but still stay with as many OEM parts as possible as compared to going single. j-spec hybrids would surely be the way to go but I'm missing a good description of gains, costs and general experiences compared to normal BPU or even compared to going single

[StuartW]

The UK specs are laggier than J-specs. The turbine wheels are smaller presumably to counteract the higher inertia in them and minimise the extra lag that using steel caused. While they are more durable at higher boost pressures, the smaller size means they are less efficient. So really, no gain to be had.

 

If you hybridise the j-specs you'll get more lag but will be able to flow 1.4bar of boost with a noticeable power gain. If it's done properly. Whether it's worth it is up to you, but I'd deffo say that just switching to UK specs and expecting them to perform like j-spec hybrids is a loser from the start.

 

Don't forget all the other bits you need if you go UK spec - manifold, downpipe, not sure about the EGCV bit?

 

-Ian

 

Ian..Where your hybrids done by envy?

 

What other bits do i need apart from a uk spec first de-cat? EGR will be deleted anyways.

 

So what you are saying is there are gains out of envy hrbrids over a full uk spec conversion??

[Soop Dogg]

Ian..Where your hybrids done by envy?

 

What other bits do i need apart from a uk spec first de-cat? EGR will be deleted anyways.

 

So what you are saying is there are gains out of envy hrbrids over a full uk spec conversion??

 

Ian's hybrids were built pre-Envy I believe. They were in his car when he bought it. (about 2001) I bought them off him when he went single and they were very, very strong. Totally transformed my car which was running 12's before fitting them. I sold them on before getting rid of my Supe.

 

I'd recommend going with a good set of hybrids to anyone - those who say they aren't worth it can't have driven with a set of really good, strong, well set up hybrids.

 

For a while, there were one or two companies out there promising all sorts with their hybrids, but they were selling at best a mediocre product. This really didn't do any favours to the image of hybrids and many people went completely off the idea.

 

I can totally understand this, but to then claim that all hybrids are "just not worth the bother" is to dismiss a valid route of improving your cars performance to the 450-480bhp region (reliably if well mapped) without going single.

[L33]

i couldnt agree more

[StuartW]

Ian's hybrids were built pre-Envy I believe. They were in his car when he bought it. (about 2001) I bought them off him when he went single and they were very, very strong. Totally transformed my car which was running 12's before fitting them. I sold them on before getting rid of my Supe.

 

I'd recommend going with a good set of hybrids to anyone - those who say they aren't worth it can't have driven with a set of really good, strong, well set up hybrids.

 

For a while, there were one or two companies out there promising all sorts with their hybrids, but they were selling at best a mediocre product. This really didn't do any favours to the image of hybrids and many people went completely off the idea.

 

I can totally understand this, but to then claim that all hybrids are "just not worth the bother" is to dismiss a valid route of improving your cars performance to the 450-480bhp region (reliably if well mapped) without going single.

 

Does anyone vouch for Envy Hybrids...Apart fro L33

[tDR]

I still don't buy into the going hybrid route when a small single really isn't much different expense wise given the labour costs of each (unless fitting yourself then that isn't a consideration) and the fact that they both rely on the same underlying supporting mods. The small single will outperform the hybrids in both spool, smoothness of power delivery and outright power, along with the EGT's no doubt being significantly lower - a 'safer' tune. You can't polish a turd as they say... hybridising Toyota Turbos is just that to me - they were good at their inception but turbo design has moved on a lot since then.

 

Justin's car is a good comparison to mine on this subject - he ran 1.6+ bar with Turbo Technics Hybrids on C16 to net his 11.64 at the strip on a car also running 256/264 cams. If that yields a car so much 'stronger' as has been claimed, howcome I've ran higher terminals (121MPH) and a lower ET (11.58) at the strip at 1.1 bar on stock JDM Ceramics on actually a lower octane fuel, Sunoco GT Plus?

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[bodilx6]

Is a small single really comparable in price with hybrids? won't it take much more fabrication and third party parts than keeping it OEM (except for the hybrid parts of cause)? I'm thinking manifold alone is big saving.

 

Won't going hybrid only need the turbos redone, injectors and a piggyback ECU?

[L33]

i cant see how going single can be compared to hybris cost wise! to do a single set up right its a lot more expensive! stuart has been single and wants to go back to twin so this isnt really helping him?

[tDR]

i cant see how going single can be compared to hybris cost wise! to do a single set up right its a lot more expensive! stuart has been single and wants to go back to twin so this isnt really helping him?

 

You're not biased....... much!

 

Tell me how it's a lot more expensive, please. I have argued this point previously on other small single (PHR street kit for example) vs. hybrids type threads BTW. And then I didn't argue the expense of labour and replacements when the hybrids invariably fail 2,000 miles later... not to mention the hassle Lui's car is an excellent example of this sentiment - I'm sure he, as with many others, wishes he just went straight to small single in the first place.

 

Taking everything into account for a well set up hybrids and small single config - parts and labour, including necessary supporting mods, there is little difference in cost.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.