Formula 1 - Medals System

[garethr]

Ecclestone said: "The reason there is no overtaking is nothing to do with the circuits or the cars - it's because the drivers don't need to overtake.

 

Really? So F1 drivers are different from every other competitor in every other type of sport, are they? Content just to drive around in circles for a whole season and hope that they finish up with enough points to win the championship.

[grahamc]

Ecclestone said: "The reason there is no overtaking is nothing to do with the circuits or the cars - it's because the drivers don't need to overtake.

 

Really? So F1 drivers are different from every other competitor in every other type of sport, are they? Content just to drive around in circles for a whole season and hope that they finish up with enough points to win the championship.

 

I would be content driving in circles all year if I got paid what they are paid

[Gordon F]

In reality there should be no overtaking in F1 anyway. The fastest driver/car combo should start on pole and disappear off into the distance and the slowest should start and finish at the back. It's the way the sport is regulated.

Pit stops and things like push to pass are just artificial ways of shuffling the pack and trying to liven up the action for tv.

Points for fastest lap just encourages teams who are off the pace to go out of sync and try low fuel and new tyre runs instead of attempting to be competitive in the race itself.

[TRACIE_LOU]

How about they take all the electronic gizmos out of the cars, tune or de-tune the cars so they are all even, and let the winner be down to the best driver of the day?! You put ANYONE in a McLaren and they'll win. It's not the drivers anymore, it's the money put into the technology in the cars! A fairer race would mean that no matter what car you're in, Honda, Toyota or Ferrari, it's down to your ability as a driver to pull through, overtake and win the race.

F1 is all fake anyway, too much going on behind the scenes for my liking, at least the BTCC is how racing should be! Down to the driver's ability and performance on the day!!

 

utter rubbish f1 is supposed to be the pinacle of motor sport

and they should be allowed to develop the cars, hamiltons team m8 (his name escapes me now) did nothing in the same car

[colsoop]

Daft idea, Mr Ecclestone should wait and see what the new aerodynamics bring to the party before making changes elsewhere.

 

His idea would bring more do or die manouveurs.

We have seen already this season how biased stewards are with their decision making on 50 - 50 duels.

[TLicense]

In reality there should be no overtaking in F1 anyway. The fastest driver/car combo should start on pole and disappear off into the distance and the slowest should start and finish at the back. It's the way the sport is regulated.

Pit stops and things like push to pass are just artificial ways of shuffling the pack and trying to liven up the action for tv.

 

 

I've been saying exactly that for years! I'm glad that other people are thinking the same thing!

[benkei]

utter rubbish f1 is supposed to be the pinacle of motor sport

 

Was that sarcastic??

 

How about they just develop the cars SOOO much that they drive themselves? Wouldn't need to fork out loads for drivers then and could concentrate on more technology to make the cars even faster and more artificially intelligent.

Wasn't there a BMW on TopGear that drove itself round their test track. It's the beggining of new F1 technology!!

Remember too, they could program into the Renault F1 car, for the engine to play the National Anthem! They can control virtually EVERYTHING on those cars electronically, where as, say the BTCC cars have an accelerator pedal, a clutch and a brake pedal too! Don't forget the handbrake! And that's pretty much it!

[TLicense]

How about they take all the electronic gizmos out of the cars, tune or de-tune the cars so they are all even, and let the winner be down to the best driver of the day?! You put ANYONE in a McLaren and they'll win. It's not the drivers anymore, it's the money put into the technology in the cars! A fairer race would mean that no matter what car you're in, Honda, Toyota or Ferrari, it's down to your ability as a driver to pull through, overtake and win the race.

F1 is all fake anyway, too much going on behind the scenes for my liking, at least the BTCC is how racing should be! Down to the driver's ability and performance on the day!!

 

BTCC cars are absolutely no different. They're all developed in their own way to be as fast as the regulations and the budgets will allow. (Trust me I've first hand experience of this!)

 

If you think that it should be down to the driver, and the driver alone, then you've certainly missed the point of F1. It's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport. A "team" competing against another "team". That's how it has been since the very first race.

 

There's a saying in the industry that says "races are won at the factory and lost at the circuit". What you see on the tele is a very small proportion of what happens in F1. A small insight is that of our team of 250 odd people, only about 75 actually go to a race. The rest are busy developing the car as fast as we can to (in our case) catch up with everyone else. That is where the real race is happening.

[TRACIE_LOU]

Was that sarcastic??

 

How about they just develop the cars SOOO much that they drive themselves? Wouldn't need to fork out loads for drivers then and could concentrate on more technology to make the cars even faster and more artificially intelligent.

Wasn't there a BMW on TopGear that drove itself round their test track. It's the beggining of new F1 technology!!

Remember too, they could program into the Renault F1 car, for the engine to play the National Anthem! They can control virtually EVERYTHING on those cars electronically, where as, say the BTCC cars have an accelerator pedal, a clutch and a brake pedal too! Don't forget the handbrake! And that's pretty much it!

 

if there where no develpment you would still be driving a model t ford

[TLicense]

Was that sarcastic??

 

How about they just develop the cars SOOO much that they drive themselves? Wouldn't need to fork out loads for drivers then and could concentrate on more technology to make the cars even faster and more artificially intelligent.

Wasn't there a BMW on TopGear that drove itself round their test track. It's the beggining of new F1 technology!!

Remember too, they could program into the Renault F1 car, for the engine to play the National Anthem! They can control virtually EVERYTHING on those cars electronically, where as, say the BTCC cars have an accelerator pedal, a clutch and a brake pedal too! Don't forget the handbrake! And that's pretty much it!

 

Yeah that's what really happens. The drivers just sit there and the car drives itself.

With a half decent ECU I could make a Supra engine play any tune you liked, but that doesn't mean I could get it to drive you down to the shops and back.

 

I suggest you take a small look at this:-

 

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/90D889BE20961303C1257483004B8AC0/$FILE/1-2009%20F1%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%2011-07-2008.pdf

[benkei]

Yeah that's what really happens. The drivers just sit there and the car drives itself.

 

Told you

[TRACIE_LOU]

i take it you like your turbo your vented discs fuel injection and so on all from motor sport development

[geoff meade]

Ecclestone was asked if it didn't seem unfair that under his new system, someone could finish second in every race over the season and lose the title to a rival who got lucky and won a single GP.

 

"You'll have to try harder next year," Ecclestone said.

 

 

lol and you think the teams will agree to this !!

 

never going to happen

[benkei]

i take it you like your turbo your vented discs fuel injection and so on all from motor sport development

 

Since when did I say I didn't agree with motorsport development??

[TRACIE_LOU]

oh i thought you didnt like the amount of technology in the cars and technology is also development but i appologise if i got it wrong

[RiceRocket]

No to medals

 

I thought the major reason for lack of overtaking in recent years was due to the aerodynamic instability (predominantly the rear wing) one F1 car inflicts on the following car. I think one of the many major technical rules' changes for next season will sort this out.

[merckx]

They should never have started giving the second place driver eight points.

[benkei]

oh i thought you didnt like the amount of technology in the cars and technology is also development but i appologise if i got it wrong

 

Only half wrong!

Technological development is great, but not in F1 when it starts taking effort away from the driver, ie: traction control, ABS, etc. (My MR2 has none of this!) Flappy paddle gear boxes are a good advancement though, as the driver can keep both hands on the wheel and still change gear, which is probably VERY helpful at the speeds they are going! So it's not ALL bad, just most of it!

[TLicense]

Where do you think all that technology has come from?

Even technology that doesn't come from F1, but is used within F1 is generally developed at a far faster rate than it would have done otherwise.

 

It really does sound that you're watching F1, with rose tinted glasses of Arnout / Villeneuve, and not wanting any progress.

 

OK let me put it this way. If you were going to compete in a race and you could do something that was within the regulations that would enable you to have a faster car than your competitor. Would you choose not to have it because you thought it would detract from the spectacle? If so then you've really no idea of what it is to be competitive.

[jim_supra]

They should never have started giving the second place driver eight points.

 

I agree, the simplest way for Bernie Ecclestone to acheive what he's after is to give a bigger points margin between 1st and 2nd places. Plus the teams that finish further back (down to sixth place) would still get points.

[benkei]

Where do you think all that technology has come from?

Even technology that doesn't come from F1, but is used within F1 is generally developed at a far faster rate than it would have done otherwise.

 

It really does sound that you're watching F1, with rose tinted glasses of Arnout / Villeneuve, and not wanting any progress.

 

OK let me put it this way. If you were going to compete in a race and you could do something that was within the regulations that would enable you to have a faster car than your competitor. Would you choose not to have it because you thought it would detract from the spectacle? If so then you've really no idea of what it is to be competitive.

 

I'm saying that there is too much technology taking over what should be down to the driver. The regulations should be changed to suit. Obviously if it's acceptable within the regulations then why not do it? They want the edge over their rivals, so they get it. They win, they get more money, and they move further forward in developments, however the teams who stuggle, don't win, don't get so much money to advance futher, and fall further and further behind. Yes, it's competative, but is it fair?

The cars should be relatively equal in spec to make a fairer race. The team work together - the pit crew do their job as quickly and efficiently as they can, the mechanics make sure the car is fault free and ready to go, and the driver drives the car round the track to his best ability.

I'd like F1 to be more of 'any man's race' instead of, "I wonder who out of the 3 big names will win this one?" Why bother with the other teams, they just make up the numbers and never win any way.

[Lbm]

They should never have started giving the second place driver eight points.

 

You may be right, but..

 

I agree, the simplest way for Bernie Ecclestone to acheive what he's after is to give a bigger points margin between 1st and 2nd places. Plus the teams that finish further back (down to sixth place) would still get points.

 

Let's just remember why they changed that in 2003...

 

Monday, 28 October, 2002, 17:51 GMT

F1 rule changes explained

 

Points:

Winning the race will no longer be as big an advantage as it used to be because the difference between first and second place will now be two points rather than four.

 

The winner will still get 10 points, but the runner-up will now get eight points, rather than six as before.

 

The hope is that this will keep the championship alive for longer than is the case at the moment.

 

The points will be extended down to eighth place rather than sixth.

 

The points will now be 10, eight, six, five, four, three, two, one for first to eighth places.

[TLicense]

I'm saying that there is too much technology taking over what should be down to the driver. The regulations should be changed to suit. Obviously if it's acceptable within the regulations then why not do it? They want the edge over their rivals, so they get it. They win, they get more money, and they move further forward in developments, however the teams who stuggle, don't win, don't get so much money to advance futher, and fall further and further behind. Yes, it's competative, but is it fair?

The cars should be relatively equal in spec to make a fairer race. The team work together - the pit crew do their job as quickly and efficiently as they can, the mechanics make sure the car is fault free and ready to go, and the driver drives the car round the track to his best ability.

I'd like F1 to be more of 'any man's race' instead of, "I wonder who out of the 3 big names will win this one?" Why bother with the other teams, they just make up the numbers and never win any way.

 

I'm sorry but thats just absolute rubbish.

I work for one of the teams that isn't in "the top 3". And I'm wondering exactly who are the top 3? Ferrari, McLaren and BMW? Or maybe Renault? What about Willams? Toyota? Or Maybe even Torro Rosso?

 

I worked for a team a few years ago that was regularly beating "the top 3" teams, and were challenging for both the constructors and drivers championships and ended up 3rd in the championship in that year, which shows that it's not just the same 3 teams each year. It wasn't so long ago that Ferrari were known as a mid-field team.

 

As for the same teams winning and making the biggest gains and pulling away from the teams that don't win. I think you'll find that team I work for, which finished let's face it, dead last in 2007, actually in terms of %age laptime made the biggest gains of all the teams on the grid. I'd like to introduce you to the law of diminishing returns....

 

So you tell me what particular bit of technology should be removed? The driver has full control over the steering, has no direct traction control, so has full control over the throttle, has no anti-lock brakes so has full control over the brake system. The only thing that has any real trick control system to it is the gearbox. So are you saying that the reason why the pace of the cars are so different is down to the gearbox control system? Right...

 

So what you think should happen is "the team" (I note you only mentioned the part of the team that you see on the t.v. - not the other 75% that actually enable the car and driver to win races) should turn up at the circuit. Bernie should then hand them a car to race around in, and then we should give it back at the end of the race. I think you'll find that you can do that at any go-kart track that you like for about £40 for 30 minutes.

 

I'm going to leave it here I think....

[Thorin]

So what you think should happen is "the team" (I note you only mentioned the part of the team that you see on the t.v. - not the other 75% that actually enable the car and driver to win races) should turn up at the circuit. Bernie should then hand them a car to race around in, and then we should give it back at the end of the race. I think you'll find that you can do that at any go-kart track that you like for about £40 for 30 minutes.

 

That sounds good to me, can we have Le Mans style starts though?

[merckx]

You may be right, but..

 

Let's just remember why they changed that in 2003...

 

Monday, 28 October, 2002, 17:51 GMT

F1 rule changes explained

 

Points:

Winning the race will no longer be as big an advantage as it used to be because the difference between first and second place will now be two points rather than four.

 

The winner will still get 10 points, but the runner-up will now get eight points, rather than six as before.

 

The hope is that this will keep the championship alive for longer than is the case at the moment.

 

The points will be extended down to eighth place rather than sixth.

 

The points will now be 10, eight, six, five, four, three, two, one for first to eighth places.

I suppose that's rewarded drivers for consistently finishing in the points like Kubica but it can also lead to the lack of overtaking, eight points for second place is just too much.