tbourner Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Then we would all pay tax at the same rate. 30% of lots is still more money than 30% of not very much, and that's fair. Yes, I might have physically more money left to myself than you, but proportionally it's the same, and that's fair. Yeah but immediately the low earners would lose their homes and be completely bancrupt - yeah nice idea that!!! You seem to think the world owes you because you work quite hard. If you want to earn more, you'll get a hell of a lot further changing yourself rather than society...but that involves doing something rather than bitching on the Internet. Not at all, I know you have to work for it, have you not read my posts? You do pay less tax. Do the math. I understand that, I mean it's a fair system as it is, that the more you earn the higher rate tax you pay. It doesn't mean people refuse their pay rise that takes them over 40k though!! By the same logic, why don't you sell your nice car and give the money to someone who is working on a minimum wage? Because I earnt it fair and square, why should I? The thing about wealth is its all relative. I believe that your lifestyle will automatically expand to consume whatever you earn. See my previous post. I was always under the impression that tax is done in bands (perhaps someone will correct me). Someone earning £100k doesn't pay £40k in tax just because the higher tax rat is 40%. Their first ~£6k is inelligible for tax. The remainder up to ~£35k is taxed at 22%, then the rest taxed at 40%. So, they take home ~£68k of a 100k income - overall tax of just 32%. The introduction of the extra 5% would only actually make a difference of £3250 per year to a £100k earner, and that's assuming they introduce it across the board to earnings above £35k, rather than introducing an additional, higher band, for really high earners. It does work like that. That's why I don't understand all this misunderstanding. The way it works now is fine. Someone earning 50k pays the same tax (up to 40k) as someone earning 40k, then on top of that they pay a bit more tax, because they are the people that have more to fall back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiceRocket Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 So is the ideal solution to tax everyone at the same rate of say 25-30%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Because I earnt it fair and square, why should I? Preee-cisemundo. So drug dealers and mafia bosses aside, why should someone who is, say, the director of a legit company and on six figures think or do any different? I don't see how this squares with your "share the wealth" and "sell one of your houses" comments? Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 because they are the people that have more to fall back on. Again, based on what?! My point is the harder you work, the more you earn. But the more you earn (ie. when you get through the tax ceilings) the higher rate of tax you pay. Why? I fail to see how that is a fair system. I fail to see how someone who has worked from a low position to head up a company/own a company and earn a high salary should suddenly seem fair game to throw more money into the coffers just because they slogged their guts out to get there. I don't disagree that those earning £25K work just as hard as those earning £150K but there is a reason that they're both where they are. We all pretty much start out with the same tools - our brains, our initiative and our self-discipline and we all end up in different places because of how we use them. I repeat that this country does not reward hard work or success - as a nation we love the underdog until he becomes successful - as soon as that happens we get the knives out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I sometimes wonder about the Badger. The shit hit the fan in spring when the fuel prices went silly, the more fuel costs the more 'things' cost (groceries being a good example). If he did a 3 month VAT holiday on all fuels it would have made a massive difference to the way things have turned out. Petrol would have been 25p a litre less, diesel would have been 30p less. These savings would be directly passed on to consumers and drivers would have had more money in their pockets to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 its a Government Cock up of.. Robbing Peter to pay Paul situation... The money still gotta come from somewhere, so even if there are tax cut someone somewhere somehow is gonna pay for it! the banks and people taking short cuts messed up, we all knew the bubble was gonna burst though. The government need to take a long hard look at the spending, the borrowing. Firstly i think everyone here will agree they need to cut the Tax at the Pumps, taxing people essentially for travelling to work is stupid how bout cutting the benefits down, maybe we could stop paying the Suits (civil Servants) that take 100k salary a year, then theres the military funding.. (the money isn't going to the soliders or departments that need it). but then we'd be teaching old dogs new tricks.. and this country is full of them hehe! oh and i reacon we could get rid of the buzz word of global warming which in my view is "scare tatics" to make people pay. Kindly ask china and USA to turn down there emmisions and then we may have a chance.. but will that happenn...er no . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It is interesting tht this global warming bolloques has died a death isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It is interesting tht this global warming bolloques has died a death isn't it. Not in America. It's the new big thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Preee-cisemundo. So drug dealers and mafia bosses aside, why should someone who is, say, the director of a legit company and on six figures think or do any different? Because that's the system, they got where they are knowing they would have to pay more tax, I got my car knowing how much it would cost me to run etc. I shouldn't have to give my car up to someone poorer any more than a rich person should have to sell their house and give half the proceeds to charity - but they do have to pay the higher rate of tax and that's the way it should stay. I don't see how this squares with your "share the wealth" and "sell one of your houses" comments? Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick... Share the wealth. I pay more tax net than someone earning less than me, so I'm sharing my wealth to them. If you earn a LOT more then you pay a LOT more tax, that's fair. Again, based on what?! Based on the fact they have more money maybe? If you own a 500k house you are more able to survive than if you own a 90k flat above a shop. Also the people with the 500k house are probably older and have less of a mortgage owing, are in positive equity etc and the poorer half have a FAR smaller net should their outgoings suddenly change. My point is the harder you work, the more you earn. But the more you earn (ie. when you get through the tax ceilings) the higher rate of tax you pay. Why? I fail to see how that is a fair system. I fail to see how someone who has worked from a low position to head up a company/own a company and earn a high salary should suddenly seem fair game to throw more money into the coffers just because they slogged their guts out to get there. Well I'm not saying it hasn't been set up properly to begin with, I'm sure there are better ways of doing it all, but it's here now and everyone on here suggesting we suddenly change it to 30% for everyone is just ridiculous, it'd cause such unbelievable problems (for the poor) that the country would be a shambles within 6 months!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike17 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It is definately the benefits system in this country that needs a shake up IMO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 To be honest, I don't know what there is to whinge about, unless you're earning over $150K, which lets be honest, I doubt applies to many people on here! So far the credit crunch has hit, and hit us hard. Mortgage rates have fallen Petrol Prices have fallen VAT has dropped by 2.5% The only downside I've seen so far is the pound has dropped in value compared to other currencies. But seeing as I'm not buying thousands of pounds worth of goods from other countries each week, it's not really effecting me. Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Those earning over £150k should absolutely be taxed some more, I think there should be another higher band for say £400k+ too. If you don't like it you could always move abroad... and could find that you're charged more income tax there too. I reckon this is going to cause lots of problems (if retailers actually pass on savings to the customers), I wonder how many IT systems will have 17.5% VAT hard coded into them somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I'm not too happy with the rate of tax, but I'm fine with the system. What I mean is, I think having equal tax bands for all is fair...someone on £30k gets taxed the same as someone on £300k for the same £30k of earnings and so on etc. On the other hand, I think the salary thresholds the tax bandings are set to are too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 "No incentive to work hard cos you just get it taxed! then again this is labour government and we now in the time where you can choose to be on the Dole and benefits instead of working." I run a small business and employ a couple of people and personally work bloody hard. I am here all hours day and night and carry the can for everything we as a company do. I have just done my company return and personal return and the first thing I said when the accountant said you owe this much tax (£Kmany) was WTF is it all for. It really makes it not worth while when I work out my pro rata pay it is no more than anyone else I employ so what is the point. They go home at six and I work every bloody hour to keep it all together so they have a job to come into in the morning and pay for twenty odd days a year holiday and sickies when they get a hangover. They are great people but TBH it is just not worth running a business. All I am is an unpaid tax collector for the government and my success based on my hard work and risk is unfairly taxed. More to be point it is unwisely spent so I begrudge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Of course what would solve all the problems would be to cut the worlds population by 20%, which would also save the future of the planet as well. We should be thinking about taxing people who have more than 1 child too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 To be honest, I don't know what there is to whinge about, unless you're earning over $150K, which lets be honest, I doubt applies to many people on here! So far the credit crunch has hit, and hit us hard. Mortgage rates have fallen Petrol Prices have fallen VAT has dropped by 2.5% The only downside I've seen so far is the pound has dropped in value compared to other currencies. But seeing as I'm not buying thousands of pounds worth of goods from other countries each week, it's not really effecting me. Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? Wait until the Govt loans need repaying. If you have any cash at all I suggest you keep it tucked up nice and safe. Do not spend a penny because when this all goes tits up in 2009/10 you will need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? The boat / yacht building industry has been hit hard. Very hard. Several large, well known builders (UK and abroad) are cutting workforces and production severely due to cancelled orders / lack of sales. Even those who actually still want a new boat are backing off due to not being able to sell their current one....whatever our opinion / lack of sympathy for those rich enough even to consider a purchase like a yacht, its the workforces that are suffering right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? Yes, a pay freeze, an overtime ban & no bonuses. 800 redundancies across the group to add to the 30 that go in two weeks from our plant (as part of the new technology project) The motor and housing sectors going to the wall effects us greatly. If GM go under it'll be very bad. My wife also has an overtime ban and redundancies at her place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? Looks like my misses is being made redundant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Working in the civil/structural engineering sector, I've seen how bad things have been going since early this year. I got laid off in September, the company I worked for laid off 5 staff, the remaining 6 staff are on a 3 day week. It took me 2 months to get another job and that is 150 miles away from home. The only upside I can see is in the nuclear sector which has been granted funding to continue the decomissioning works across the UK, so there is expected to be a growth in jobs in all aspects of that work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire148 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 About 1000 jobs going from the company I work for, and probably more next year. The guys in the US dont even get redundancy pay, just a nice letter. Credit crunch is soooo real to those 1000. I bet the 2p rise on fuel duty gets slipped in at the same time as the VAT cut .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire148 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 About 1000 jobs going from the company I work for, and probably more next year. The guys in the US dont even get redundancy pay, just a nice letter. Credit crunch is soooo real to those 1000. I bet the 2p rise on fuel duty gets slipped in at the same time as the VAT cut .... He just slipped it in ... f#cker ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? No bonuses, work do cancelled, company days must be taken over Christmas, future expenses cancelled unless absolutely necessary, no more travel unless required, locations in Ithaca and Naperville closed down, salary review moved from Feb to May (so far). Pretty scared for my job now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Has anyone actually experienced any negative effects of the "economic downturn"? Bad call! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire148 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 VED prices up by a £5 next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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