michael Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 As some of you know I sell Supra and Toyota keyrings on eBay and have done for some time. Recently I received an email from "[email protected]" telling me to stop selling them or he'd get the listings removed. Having tried to contact him and just getting bounced messages I presumed it was a hoax from a seller of similar items (something I've had a lot in the past!) and ignored it. Then today eBay sent me this...... -------------------------------------------------------- Dear Michael J Canny (ebay @ megaboost . co . uk), **PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)** We would like to let you know that we removed your listing: 7961786147 Toyota Logo - Metal Keyring - mr2 supra celica yaris 7961786155 Toyota Supra Logo - Metal Keyring / Keychain (key ring) Because the intellectual property rights owner notified us, by a signed statement, that your listing or the item itself infringes their copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property rights owned by them. We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated to complete the transaction. If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account is likely to be suspended. If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the intellectual property rights owner directly at: Toyota Motor Corporation / Toyota Motor Sales USA, Inc [email protected] eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the rights owner that requested the removal of your listing(s), we encourage you to contact them first. For more information on eBay's cooperation with rights owners through the VeRO Programme, and a list of rights owners that have created About Me pages, please visit: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/questions/vero-ended-item.html http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html Thank you for your cooperation. Regards, Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) eBay Inc -------------------------------------------------------- Yet eBay remains brimming with people selling dodgy CDs with photocopies of manuals, dodgy seat belt covers and other tat... I wonder why I'm being picked on by them? I only have a couple of Supra ones left now anyway so it's not a big deal, very annoying though - it's not as if they sell something similar and I'm losing them business, me against one of the biggest corporations in the world... I suspect I'm not going to win this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRex Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 why don't you ring Toyota in the US and ask to speak to him ? at the very least you might find that he does not exist in their address book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 All sounds very plausible, since toyota do really own the copyright, however I would find an email address for their marketing division in the US, and confirm what you have received is true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 The first attempt to email him at the threat stage resulted in a bounce, the headers from the message also pointed elsewhere and the "reply to" bounced - I'm still thinking this could be a hoax but eBay obviously don't. I've attempted to make contact again and will also try a generic Toyota US email address to see if that gets me anywhere. Obviously what he's saying is correct but to the best of my knowledge my supplier got permission from all the German divisions of each company... I guess that limits me to selling there though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRex Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I'd reply back to ebay explaining that if I were you Its quite obvious this chap does not exist Why not ring and find out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 I've sent a response to eBay and also explained myself fully, forgot to mention that the original message from the 'Toyota' chap actually came as a "question for seller" from "[email protected]" (user '2000prince') a month or so ago - in this he asked me to reply to "[email protected]"- both accounts failed when I replied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRex Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Someones just trying to annoy you mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTIN R Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Sounds like a Pi$$ take to me, and Ebay have bought it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 he'll be selling them on ebay next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashpoint Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Or ali is also trying to sell the keyrings under adiffernt name and want to get rid of the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Ali - PMSL 50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Well now I'm really confused! [email protected] has now responded to me - no bounce this time around and the headers look legit at first glance: Received: from turing.toyota.com [63.87.74.200] by web20 with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.07) id A8F0A8C014E; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:51:12 -0500 Received: from external03.toyota.com (external03.toyota.com [10.63.12.106]) by turing.toyota.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j2IFmqs22123 for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:48:52 -0800 Received: from tgna.tms.toyota.com ([10.48.8.95]) by external03.toyota.com (Lotus Domino 653HF300) with ESMTP id 2005031807514141-1080288 ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:51:41 -0800 Subject: Re: eBay MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5 September 26, 2003 Message-ID: From: [email protected] Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 07:48:49 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on TGNA/HubServers/Toyota(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 03/18/2005 07:48:51 AM, Serialize complete at 03/18/2005 07:48:51 AM, Itemize by SMTP Server on External03/TmsVen(653HF300|February 01, 2005) at 03/18/2005 07:51:41 AM, Serialize by Router on External03/TmsVen(653HF300|February 01, 2005) at 03/18/2005 07:51:42 AM, Serialize complete at 03/18/2005 07:51:42 AM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0056DE2188256FC8_=" His sig is this: Garrett Biggs Intellectual Property Administrator TMS Legal Department Ph: (310) 468-4770 Fax: (310) 381-5819 I've emailed him with a few questions regarding my listings... we'll see what comes back, I'll also make some enquiries with Toyota to see if he's legit or hiding behind spoofed headers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRex Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 spoofed headers are easy I'd ring the Toyota head office and ask if he is in the global or local address book this is assuming you haven't done anything dodgy, not having a clue what you are selling etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 The reply: "Toyota's concern is that you are selling non-licensed (counterfeit) items on ebay. There are only a couple licensed manufacturers that a make key chains for Toyota. Those manufacturers/distributors that are licensed are in strict agreement to only sell to Toyota dealers. Although I am not familiar with our German arrangements, you are selling these products on a U.S. ebay site. As you can understand, we are unable to ignore the sale of unlicensed products. A second concern we have, is that when we litigate against a larger offender of our intellectual property, the courts always ask if we ever allowed/condoned someone other than a dealer to sell these products and they also ask how we enforce our intellectual property. By being consistent, it looks much more favorable in the courts." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 this is assuming you haven't done anything dodgy, not having a clue what you are selling etc I'm not sure if I'm being dodgy or not I bought a quantity of keyrings from a German supplier after buying a couple from him on eBay for personal use - he assures me the correct permission has been granted to make them but he is bound to say this.... Anyway only Toyota seem to be getting stressed about this at present and I only have a couple of Supra ones left which I may as well keep as spares for myself, I have a lot of the Toyota logo ones but I'll flog these at a show or something This is what I'm flogging BTW: http://www.megaboost.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11 (No plug intended, I'm not a trader ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Chap seems OK to be honest - he suggests that if I sell things in the UK only I'll be fine as he's only tasked with the US sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRoy Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 False headers are easy as said but the details appear too similar to what I remember when working for TGB. Suprising they noticed though? So do they sell these same rings in dealerships then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 All looks legit Michael, a contact at Toyota and TMS in the US has a very similar header... Stick to the UK methinks! TBH they wouldn't do much at all, they are hardly going to extradite ya Worse that could happen is the loss of your Ebay account! Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Suprising they noticed though? Apparently they have pulled around 4000 auctions so far! So do they sell these same rings in dealerships then? No, they have never sold anything like them either as far as I'm aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 All looks legit Michael, a contact at Toyota and TMS in the US has a very similar header... Yeah, given the replies I've now had I'm fairly certain it's legit, wonder why it failed the first time around though and I wonder why they used an active (yet little used) normal email account and email to contact me the first time? Stick to the UK methinks! And maybe Europe and Asia TBH they wouldn't do much at all, they are hardly going to extradite ya Cheap holiday Worse that could happen is the loss of your Ebay account! That would be annoying, I've had my account for 6 years now, 700+ feedback and 100% rating, I'd be gutted to start again but I need the spending money (If you still have any of these up there Gaz can I have them back, running out now ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Well this seems a bit daft to me really. If they don't sell the items or endorse the sale of the items themselves anywhere then they are not losing any money here. I can understand the line they are taking in regards to letting the small copyright go undettered leading to bigger issues. But lets get real here they spend a fortune on various advertising things, from running engines in formula one to entire race team sponsorship in jgtc, not to mention the actual TV and literature advertising costs. They have themselves free label propogation across a massive media and they want to stamp on that??? Seriously that doesn't make sense. if they have smaller fish not being done leading to bigger fish escaping copyright theft issues why not issue individual smaller fish licenses to sell these toyota logo items??? They don't lose revunue as they don't sell the product or endorse it in the first place, its free advertising of their logo, and if they can go to the trouble of pursuing small fishes across the internet to make them stop using their logo then they can just as easily assess the situation and use said same dept to issue a licsense permitting use of logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Can't talk, fitting Mazda badges to car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 HAH lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRex Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Can't talk, fitting Mazda badges to car.... Nicely done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 hey Michael, Just noticed that you are selling your keyrings on ebay again. What did you need to say to ebay in the end, was it just a case of forwarding the email from the states. I'm just curious, as it was an interesting tale at the time and I wondered what the conclusion was.. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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