tbourner Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 We have a Combi boiler in the kitchen cupboard with a timer box upstairs in the airing cupboard. The plug for the boiler (plugged into a socket that goes straight to the trip marked 'boiler' ) has a label on it saying do not unplug! Does that mean "permanently" or "at all, ever!"? We were hoping to unplug it for a few mins and take a sneaky feed off it for an outside light. Will it screw everything up if I do or will it just mean the heating won't be on for a few mins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 It should be ok, otherwise what would happen if you had a power cut Mind you I am not a heating engineer have no clue about boilers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 It should be ok, otherwise what would happen if you had a power cut Ooh good point, didn't think of that! Hopefully worst case is I'll have to reset the clock then. I'll let you know if I die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 You want to power an outside light off your ring main? Best not - it'll want an RCD/RCBO to be safe. Switching off the boiler will be fine though - it's just warning you that you'll lose heating if you switch it off. Go here for lots of good advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr lover Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Oh dear http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/7616/explosionkv2.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 You want to power an outside light off your ring main? Best not - it'll want an RCD/RCBO to be safe. They're usually wired from a ceiling rose! At least all the ones I've seen have been, maybe we've got a dodgy electrician in the area! My idea was if anything went wrong it'd just trip the boiler fuse. Hence I wanted to know why I wasn't allowed to switch it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 They're usually wired from a ceiling rose! At least all the ones I've seen have been, maybe we've got a dodgy electrician in the area! My idea was if anything went wrong it'd just trip the boiler fuse. Hence I wanted to know why I wasn't allowed to switch it off. Sorry, yes you're right - outside security lights are often wired straight off the lighting circuits. Outdoors circuits for garden lights would have to be separated. However, you've made an interesting point - you're going to wire a light to a circuit that says "do not switch off". If the light blows the circuit, you'll knock out your heating with it. Take a look at that link I posted earlier - they suggest you could pass the circuit through a low-rated fuse which _should_ save the main circuit if it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Sorry, yes you're right - outside security lights are often wired straight off the lighting circuits. Outdoors circuits for garden lights would have to be separated. However, you've made an interesting point - you're going to wire a light to a circuit that says "do not switch off". If the light blows the circuit, you'll knock out your heating with it. Take a look at that link I posted earlier - they suggest you could pass the circuit through a low-rated fuse which _should_ save the main circuit if it goes. I reckon you should buy a copy of the IEE regs 17 edition and read it!!!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I reckon you should buy a copy of the IEE regs 17 edition and read it!!!!. Since you clearly know the answer, why not share it with the rest of us instead of just rolling your eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 It has just been on my works intranet site (British Gas), that there has been a massive power failure affecting the whole of the Hampshire area! What have you DONE??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Nothing, I'm at work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 I reckon you should buy a copy of the IEE regs 17 edition and read it!!!!. Since you clearly know the answer, why not share it with the rest of us instead of just rolling your eyes? I guess he's talking about the low rated fuse idea? I don't know though. Why would an outside light trip anything anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I guess he's talking about the low rated fuse idea? I don't know though. Why would an outside light trip anything anyway? Because it's outside in the elements. If water gets in the connections, you've got problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 This should help. http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue14_2/2005_14_spring_wiring_matters_part_p_comes_into_force.pdf Hope the link works as it's a long one to type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordy07 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Do you want to wire the outside light in temporary? What size of MCB(Breaker)is protecting the heating circuit(Should be 6AMP) You wouldnt do any lasting damage unplugging the combi for a short while some people over elaborate things a tad. Trust me ive been an electrician for 14years and am now a certifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Do you want to wire the outside light in temporary? What size of MCB(Breaker)is protecting the heating circuit(Should be 6AMP) You wouldnt do any lasting damage unplugging the combi for a short while some people over elaborate things a tad. Trust me ive been an electrician for 14years and am now a certifier. I think it's a 15A, I'll have a look later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Beast Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 ok mate here you go this is what to do if you must, by the side of the socket you need to put a fused spur, and rate the fuse at 5 amps, even 3 will do if its only a small light, what the basically means is that should the light blow its the fuse in the spur that will trip as opposed to the main trip going in your consumer unit. Couple of things that concern me though, is it defiantly a separate feed for the boiler? the reason i ask is combi boilers only need to be rated at 5 amps, therefore it can be spurred from the main ring, either upstairs or down. Now by the letter of the law any new circuit should be protected by an RCD, ie your putting in a new light off of the ring main, however if it was to come from a lighting circuit the circuit is all ready in place, if you get my drift. and remember the IP rating for the outside light, minimum IP44 cheers Richie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 It's a 300W filament halogen thingy, What's an IP? Will it say on the box? My dad's an electrician but hasn't done it for years, so it'll be safe enough just probably won't follow current regs. We would probably have done a spur off the ring and made it almost as if it's a plug in light with a switch, but the house was built with a joint kitchen and downstairs ring and we've got a max number of spurs already for sockets in the lounge. Hence the boiler plug idea came about. I've traced the cable from the plug, it goes through a single wall straight into the fusebox cupboard, and into the consumer unit to it's very own switch. IIRC it was 15A but not sure. Basically it's a bad idea to do what we're planning? And if the house burns down I'm unlikely to get insurance to pay out? Even though the absolute worst case is the boiler trip goes and the house gets a bit cold for a few hours until I realise it's off and sort something out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Beast Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 IP rating is just a level of weather proofing, i put up three outside lights today, and they were all IP44 which is fine for what your going to be doing. I know what your saying about the max spurs on the ring but thats for the likes of an additional socket rated at another 13amps, what your going to do with an outside light is fine, put the spur next to the socket and you'll be ok, your dad will be ok with doing it, those 300w halogen lights are old news now, i have just put up some new ones at my place and they are rated at 36 watts, the light output on them is great, they are in the same housing as the 300 watt ones but nearly a 10th of the power consumption, i really like them, will see if i can get you a link for them richie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It's a 300W filament halogen thingy, What's an IP? Will it say on the box? Ingress-Protection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Beast Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 http://www.scldirect.co.uk/floodlights/pir-halogen-security/36-watt-energy-saving-pir-floodlight.html This is them fantastic bit of kit richie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 i have just put up some new ones at my place and they are rated at 36 watts, the light output on them is great, they are in the same housing as the 300 watt ones but nearly a 10th of the power consumption, i really like them, will see if i can get you a link for them O'rrrrrrrrryyyyy... Please do, this interests me with my plans to completely cut power consumption round the house. Never mind : You just posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 Ooh looks good. Can't I just get the twisty bulb to replace mine though? Or do I have to buy the whole thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Beast Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 unfortunately you need to get the whole fitting, they have different ends in the tubes, the halogen ones have a small nipple type thing and the low energy type have 2 prongs like a florescent. Richie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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