SaqTRD Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi all, Yesterday night I was stopped by the cops for apparently jumping a red light. I was given a producer along with £60 fine and 3 points. Now this is just outside the Police station and there are speed cameras right infront of the lights so I definately wasn't speeding, dont think they have red light cameras at this junction. I was stopped by an Astra police car and they advised me that I jumped the lights. I was in shock because i'm sure the lights were amber as I went through them. Being an astra they had no recording equipment onboard to prove this. My question is, what are the chances of me having a good case to appeal this and also what is the procedure to appeal against this? Any help much appreciated. Saq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuohy Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I had a very similar thing happen to me a few years ago; I supposedly jumped a red light (certain I didn't), no actual evidence, but a police van full of bored policemen. Went to the police station to complain the next day, was told just to accept it otherwise they would get my licence revoked in court as I had a panic attack when I was stopped and searched (this apparently makes me unfit to drive). I ended up just taking the points and fine, but regret it to this day. I'm afraid I can't offer any proper advice, but if possible (and depending on how much it is likely to cost) I think you should fight it. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 They are the law, you won't stand any chance at all unless you can prove you didn't go through the red. I went up against an off-duty copper in court many years ago, he accelerated as I overtook and said I crossed a single white line with 1 or more wheels when I came back in. His word against mine, no evidence presented, I lost and ended up paying more than I would have. To this day I'm pretty sure I didn't but it might have been close, nobody got hurt and nobody was in danger, it was safer to complete the move than it was to slam on and cause other cars to do the same. You won't stand a chance IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 They are the law, you won't stand any chance at all unless you can prove you didn't go through the red. It's disgusting really, means a copper who doesn't like you can just make something up and bam you've got 3 points and a £60 fine. Really sorry for you mate, the justice system is appauling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Really, you should have contested against it when they pulled you. Taking the fine and the points is another way of admitting you did it. If they had no recording equiptment then they have no evidence - and surely innocent until proven guilty should come into the equasion. Watching traffic police shows, like Road Wars, I see no end of cases being dismissed due to lack of evidence. Even drunk drivers get away with it sometimes as when they come to do an official test the alcohol in their system has faded to within the legal limit. This is annoying as hell because we can all see they're drunk and unfit to drive, but no HARD evidence means they cannot press charges. I don't see how your situation is different TBH. You say the light was on amber (which means stop) and not red (which means to should have stopped by now!) and they say it was on red. No cameras on the traffic tights means no hard evidence, surely your case should be thrown out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supraGZaerotop Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 cannot see how they can do you if there is no evidence, its just theyre word againist yours, being the word of a police officer the courts would probably be in theryre favor. saying that, the world we live in today with cameras everyway i carnt see how anyone including policemen/women can claim youve broken the law with zero proof, i mean whos to say you did it, or yeah the police of course! go see youre lawyer/advisor and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 On a side note, I was there at that exact same time as you, and the light was definately on green when you went over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Id fight it... I got my car impounded and threatened with 3 points and hundreds in fines because I didnt have car insurance... when I did... any way, i was able to prove it and shoved it in their faces.... they lost.. i won... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJames Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 On a side note, I was there at that exact same time as you, and the light was definately on green when you went over yeah I could back that up... now you have thee voices against theirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Id fight it... I got my car impounded and threatened with 3 points and hundreds in fines because I didnt have car insurance... when I did... any way, i was able to prove it and shoved it in their faces.... they lost.. i won... The difference being that you probably had documentation to show you were insured at the time, what does the OP have to show he didn't go through the light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Post deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 The difference being that you probably had documentation to show you were insured at the time, what does the OP have to show he didn't go through the light? A couple of witnesses now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Really, you should have contested against it when they pulled you. Taking the fine and the points is another way of admitting you did it. If they had no recording equiptment then they have no evidence - and surely innocent until proven guilty should come into the equasion. Watching traffic police shows, like Road Wars, I see no end of cases being dismissed due to lack of evidence. Even drunk drivers get away with it sometimes as when they come to do an official test the alcohol in their system has faded to within the legal limit. This is annoying as hell because we can all see they're drunk and unfit to drive, but no HARD evidence means they cannot press charges. I don't see how your situation is different TBH. You say the light was on amber (which means stop) and not red (which means to should have stopped by now!) and they say it was on red. No cameras on the traffic tights means no hard evidence, surely your case should be thrown out! "and surely innocent until proven guilty should come into the equasion." You are a few years out of date I'm afraid... You can be done for a number of things if you "can't prove you didn't do them" nowdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire148 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi all, were amber as I went through them Saq Read your highway code ... amber means STOP ! You should seek professional advice from a reputable drivers defence unit ... google it ... but it will cost you. If you try to defend it yourself I can't see you overturning anything. I would also remove your first post ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I was in shock because i'm sure the lights were amber as I went through them. You do realise that a solid amber light means stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaqTRD Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 it's was raining and the lights turned amber as I passed through them. Sorry if that wasn't made clear. I didn't feel I could have stopped as the light were only just turning amber as I cross the junction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Some people shouldn't be allowed on the road. Basic Highway Code stuff this. Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 if amber means stop why not just have a red and green light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest supraboi Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 amber means put your foot down and hope for the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 if amber means stop why not just have a red and green light? Because they look prettier with a yellow one in the middle..... With regards to the police....ACAB...still.... H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Because they look prettier with a yellow one in the middle..... H. you crack me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 amber means put your foot down and hope for the best Thats what caused this thread in the first place:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Wow some really ill-informed and misguided opinions coming out here. I didn't realise that the Police needed recording equipment in order to prove an offence. Oral evidence has been accepted in courts as primary evidence since courts began and that fact hasn't changed the last time I looked. Being issued a fixed penalty at the roadside isn't the sole way the allegation made against you can be dealt with. You can of course contest it by requesting a court appearance. It's the ONLY way that you can put your side forward and let someone else decide your fate. BUT as you've already stated, you went throught the signal on amber, and amber means stop unless it's not safe to do so. So you would have to prove that by stopping would have caused danger, and that can be your only defence. Don't forget, the officer will have written his notes at the time or shortly thereafter, and I can guarantee, those notes will have a detailed description of the junction layout, a description of his position in terms of his relation to the stop line and the primary and secondary signals and the fact that they were working correctly. There doesn't need to be a camera or a second officer present to prove the offence, not in England & Wales anyway. So unless you have a stonebonker defence and can prove the officer was lying, then take the points and the fine and put it down as a lesson learned. And as for Supraboi, good first post mate, great advice there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Some people shouldn't be allowed on the road. Basic Highway Code stuff this. Sheesh! That's true, I've never seen so many drivers blatantly going through the lights when they shouldn't. if amber means stop why not just have a red and green light? You don't know why there is an amber light? The "not safe to do so" bit which I didn't mention in my earlier post but Class One pointed out is obvious, isn't it? Amber isn't quite the same as red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaqTRD Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hi guys! Thanks for all the advice. I wasn't sure if i had a case or not but its obvious by this thread that I was in the wrong. I guess its a case of putting it down to a lesson learned as mention earlier. Thanks for all your support, mixed opinions but I think we all agree its no point arguing with the police. Kind Regards Saq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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