Firestorm Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Can we expect to see this at the next Llandow day then mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Probably not, given my current project speed rate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Collected the car today, some photos of the Inconel manifold and dummy turbo, wastegate collector and exhaust system, before it gets ceramic coated at: ftp://ftp.chriswilson.tv/primary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Collected the car today, some photos of the Inconel manifold and dummy turbo, wastegate collector and exhaust system, before it gets ceramic coated at: ftp://ftp.chriswilson.tv/primary I could see the filenames but was unable to open the images Now I get an access denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 I'll move them to my web server, lots of pics, could be slow to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 OK, thumbnails at http://www.gatesgarth.com/4age/primary/primary.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 OK, thumbnails at http://www.gatesgarth.com/4age/primary/primary.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Wow! Dare we ask how much that fabrication costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 No, I'd be too embarrassed to post it, but it wasn't cheap E-mail me if you really want to know. I still think it money well spent though, and there was nothing off the shelf for something like this anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Very nice indeed Is the extra metal on the top of the runners to give a thicker material for the EGT probes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Very nice indeed Is the extra metal on the top of the runners to give a thicker material for the EGT probes? Would imagine thats for bracing (and beautifully done too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It's a masterpiece - and probably the same price as one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Asb'have says, it's just bracing. the EGT probe bosses are under the manifold, out of the way, one for each cylinder. Thankfully the previous owner, and commissioner of the car build, paid for an all options Motec ADL (£6000 I am told) which can data log and feed the ecu with individual runner exhaust EGT's. Would have been rude not to use them... You can see the egt probe bosses (and the turbo / manifold support bracket I added) here Next job is decide how and where to put an intercooler, and save up for one and a real turbo, rather than the dummy one on it now, with no innards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Nice work there Chris, Im gonna pop over and see if they can help with my ct12b conversion, theyre literally just round the corner from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ask for Pat (the owner), mention my name, he'll hopefully be kind to you Great bunch of guys, but I am told if you want anything doing you MUST get in before Christmas, after that they virtually do F1 stuff full time for a month or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Thought I'd copy paste some of the downsides, issues and problems with this project, as well as glitzy pics and the big HP numbers I posted this on another forum, and i have also had issues with the new manifold / exhaust system, which is having to be resolved. Charging the battery: Is anyone aware of any tech info on how fast an alternator needs to be driven to give a worthwhile charge rate? I am looking at driving a small modern, lightweight alternator off a Hewland FTR inner tripod joint, by turning and welding on a bell shaped toothed wheel. I see some photos of Group C cars using such a system, but it's far from clear what sort of pulley sizes are involved. Thanks. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ My concern is this car (a Zeus Supersports car, a bit like a radical in appearance, with a Toyota 4-age engine) was run on carbs, with a Red Top pump, and just a very basic Electromotive ignition only managaement. For endurance races someone fitted a small car alternator (Japanese one, from some tiny import car, like Brise sell). They decided to drive it from a longer cam belt, but the mounting of the alternator wasn't brilliantly executed and I lived in fear of it moving and the cam belt failing or coming off. It also suffered failures due to harmonics breaking internal wires. No I am turbo charging the engine and fitting full fuel injection. I am told, and have seen, that modern FI, Motec in my case, doesn't like wild voltage changes, although it does allow for injector pulse width trimming over contained voltage changes. I think I am going to need a charging system. I have recently run the N/A engine on carbs with no alternator and a stock cam belt system, and felt happier. It would run a full track day with just a quick trickle charge into the Varley Red Top 30 battery during lunch, from a 10 amp charger. Once modified to pressure charging the turbo will be very near the only place to mount an engine driven alternator, so this is why I now look at running one off the driveshaft. It moves it away from heat, allows unadulterated cam belt routing, and should dampen the worst harmonics, indeed, without cam belt tension to worry about, it could be isolated on rubber bushed mounts. I think I'll risk it and maybe aim for a 3 to 1 geared up drive? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I would stay away from a charging system, fit a super battery (lithium?) and run a total loss system. I wonder what type of batteries F1 use, they seem to last >2 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 OK, thumbnails at http://www.gatesgarth.com/4age/primary/primary.htmlSometimes your filenames could be a bit more descriptive Chris. The alternator belt-driven from a CV joint seems a popular choice. That manifold is a piece of art. I once ran a sports 2000 in a 9 hour race and changed batteries in the pit stops! But that was a carb engine of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 I would stay away from a charging system' date=' fit a super battery (lithium?) and run a total loss system. I wonder what type of batteries F1 use, they seem to last >2 hours.[/quote'] Most F1 engines use a super magnet based alternator by TAG, they ALL run a charging system. Motec strongly advise against a total loss system, inaccuracies in fuel metering are the worry. I could run the N/A version fine for up to 4 hours including several on board battery re starts, but battery voltage would be under 12 volts by then. A Bosch high pressure pump, a lift pump, and 4 x injectors, plus a CD ignition system raise the bar significantly though, I am committed to a charging system. More expense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Are you going to race this Chris,or is it just for track sessions? I'm probably wrong here, but would have thought a super battery would last a 20min stint if used with a voltage compensation map? Or maybe two batteries, one feeding ancilliarys and one ecu dedicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 I am thinking of doing a few races with it if it works I don't really want to add another battery, once a reliable charging system is made, it's done with. I know 2 people who have had trouble with non charged systems running ecu's, and once they fitted a small alternator everything was dandy. I know what you are saying though, enough battery capacity SHOULD see things through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 How about a KERS system for charging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share Posted December 8, 2008 Not much progress of late, due to work commitments and waiting for the turbo to be built and sent. I also had a slight issue with the collector for the wastegate in the new exhaust. The turbo people sent a dummy turbo to primary Designs, but didn't tell them it had been bored out in the exducer area of the turbine housing. Primary made a beautifully crafted stub to enter this bored out region, unknowing that the real turbo had a smaller bore here. They kindly modified the housing to fit the "real" turbo. The turbo and amended pipework are now with me, and I am now pursuing some custom pistons for the engine. I have decided against multiple throttle bodies and going for a single 60 mm or so body on the end of a custom plenum. This makes mapping easier and should pull torque up a bit. It's also cheaper, too Hopefully I can make a bit more progress now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Nice bit of zorst work there. How come you went with an internal wastegated tubby ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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