Pete Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Nice bit of zorst work there. You've no idea how nice it is unless you see it in the flesh. Some extremely well made components there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 You've no idea how nice it is unless you see it in the flesh. Some extremely well made components there. I'll have to see if Chris has 5mins tomorrow to show me around, there are some very nice bits of kit showing up in this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share Posted December 8, 2008 Nice bit of zorst work there. Thanks. How come you went with an internal wastegated tubby ? Packaging really, there's not a lot of space around the engine, and another fairly bulky device radiating and convecting heat was something that could be avoided with an internally `gated turbo. The engine itself isn't the most robust of things, so boost will need to be modest, so I am not chasing huge BHP and torque figures, just pepping the old girl up a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 8, 2008 Author Share Posted December 8, 2008 I'll have to see if Chris has 5mins tomorrow to show me around, there are some very nice bits of kit showing up in this thread! No problem, place looks like a bombs hit it, I seem to have engines and bits breeding in the workshop at the moment I hate throwing things away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Done nothing but pay out the last few days. Siemens Pico style 650 cc / min disc type injectors, Bosch Motorsport FPR, Bosch 044 fuel pump, custom plenum (£1200 with fuel rail), Marelli fast reaction air temp sensor, Bosch Hall effect cam position sensor, Marelli crank position sensor, £800 quid on Aeroquip and fittings, £400 on billet main caps, blah blah. Hope this idea works... Need cams and pistons still, an engine gasket set, machining work on the used block I have, an ecu. God, it's frightening, and I have the Skyline engine still eating money, although that's nearly done and should be on a dyno in the early New Year. It's projects like this that mean I never spend more than 50 quid on a TV, and never buy the exotic latest gizmos like fancy mobile phones, and all those funny boxes of electrickery people litter their houses with that the newspapers would have you believe you cannot live without Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Nice going Chris, I'm looking forward to seeing this in action one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Need cams and pistons still, an engine gasket set, machining work on the used block I have, an ecu. I thought you was sticking with the Motec, are you tempted to try the Solaris S8 or S6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 I can run the M800 I already have and swap it to and fro the RB26 engine, but I would rather have a separate ECU for it. I am a bit of a numpty with electronics, so would rather stick with the Motecs or EFI Technology ones, which are fairly familiar to me now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Been a bit waylaid with building 2 Skyline engines, so this has taken a back seat, but a custom plenum is in build, and Jenvey are sending me a 65 mm throttle body, some injector tubes, a fuel rail and fittings. i am going single body, mainly for cost and ease of mapping. Space precluded full size injectors without a lot of messing, so today some Siemens "Pico" style injectors arrived, which really are tiny. They flow about 670 cc / min at 3 bar pressure, and will go to about 940 cc / min at 6 bar, sp plenty of headroom there. I have also got the crank trigger sorted, and am weighing up the options for a cam position sensor location. I have a Bosch Motorsport 044 fuel pump, and a Bosch Motorsport fuel pressure regulator here now, too. Once the plenum is dummied up I can pull the engine and strip it, and get pistons ordered (they'll have to be specials) and some cams sorted out. I will almost certainly build it based on a used 4A-GZE block with oil squirters I have bought, and will fit it with billet main caps and line bore it. Even in N/A Atlantic spec the stock caps are known to move about a bit! Finally, i have made an oil drain adaptor for the turbo, and sourced the correct banjos and banjo bolts, and the Aeroquip hoses to take water to and from the turbo cassette, and to feed it with oil. I have also made a restrictor to limit the oil volume to the turbo, as it's a ball bearing one, and they don't like a lot of oil flow. A Siemens injectors is shown below, neat huh? Especially for something that will idle to emissions standards on a road engine, yet flow nigh on 1000 cc / min if required. The joy of disc valve injectors Specs at http://www.mmcompsys.com/download_zone/4_fuel_parts/S107M%20high%20flow%20fuel%20injector.pdf http://www.gatesgarth.com/pico.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 More progress, the plenum is done, it's been a nightmare and very time consuming, and as such, costly, but it's pukka with fully radiused bellmouths inside, flow bench tested, made of heavy walled spun alloy with a turned alloy trumpet shaped inlet pipe. Jenvey supplied the 65 mm throttle body and the fuel rail. The original Weber carb manifold was modded to take injector bosses and the fuel rail mounting posts. Just dummied it up on the engine, seems fine thank God. Tommorow I ensure the measurements I took were accurate and the rear bodywork clears everything.....The whole caboodle was powder coated in crinkle black. Once the bodywork clearance is verified it's engine out and full strip time, and order the pistons and cams, sort the turbo drain, and prepare the block I am going to use one with piston oil squirters. It's having billet steel main caps to add a bit more bottom end strength. http://www.chriswilson.tv/plenum/plenum.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Yes, I bet that cost a fair bit, looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 I managed to strip the bulk of the engine today, now that I know I have plenum clearance and have 3 confirmed options for intercooling the thing. The only two problems I found were erosion of the Titanium Nitrate coating on a couple of tappet buckets. I COULD get them re coated, but the people that do it are slow, and don't like little batches, so I will just buy a few more buckets ready done from the USA. The other problem only came to light when I removed the crank, which is fully polished and really should be on our lounge table, rather than inside an old Toyota 4 pot! The Yanks love BS and certainly had someone's trousers down polishing this thing, it looks chromed. This engine had run perfectly, with perfect oil pressure and no apparent issues, and as you can see from the photos below all the main caps LOOKED perfect, but on undoing the (ARP) bolts on number 2 main journal the cap fell into 2 pieces I am intending to fit steel billet main caps anyway, and won't be using this block in the turbo build, so it's no big deal, but I was surprised how well a 10,000 RPM + engine had held together with only 4 fully functioning main caps.... I have decided to buy yet more rods, and have pistons with 20 mm pins made at 8.75 to 1 compression ratio. I will also run 3/8 inch rod bolts, rather than the very small, and expensive high spec 5/16 bolts in the current Carrillos. The turbo pistons may well be a bit heavier due to thicker crowns and thicker rings (I will go up from the current 1mm rings to 1.2 mm ones). So now it's time to get the 4A-GZE block cleaned, honed to round and parallel on the biggest current bore, some billet main caps fitted, line bored and honed, the head deck ground, and some custom pistons ordered from CP or JE. I can also spec and order the new rods, too. Finally I need to order the cams, which will almost certainly end up being a custom grind on billets. This is the part of the project I really enjoy, as things start to come together a bit. It's a good job I did decide on pursuing this project, if I'd been tempted to run it in N/A format any longer I suspect the bottom end would have let go Photos of a genuine, and slightly broken, Formula Atlantic spec 4A-GE engine in bits at http://www.newbury-house.com/atlantic/atlantic.html Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Fantastic thread, thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The crank looks very clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Fully polished crank, £3700 if you want to buy a new one! Plus shipping.. http://www.toysport.com/New%20Products/Atlantic.htm Got some billet mains caps from the USA, and they are just good for paperweights or bits of steel to make something else out of. They turned out to have come off engines that had ALREADY been line bored and honed and on my 2 blocks they are out by 5 thou, in a negative direction, hence scrap. Not happy... Rather than *iss about any more I am having CAD drawings done and having 3 sets of caps machined up over here, so i can use 2 sets and have a spare set to sell or whatever. I also have to pay 500 quid towards a fixture to machine them and the correct hone for the guys Sunnen machine. It's been a nightmare finding someone to do this line boring and honing CORRECTLY, most places ain't got a clue. If you're thinking of having caps on a 2JZ-GTE let me know, my man has the 2JZ fixture for his CNC machine and access to proper caps that fit his fixture, but none of this sort of stuff is cheap. The digital piston rendering is done and JE are making pistons, and Carillo are making custom rods. Perfect Circle are making the ring packs. I have decided to get 2 sets of pistons made, so I have a spare, plus 3 sets of rings. Spending a bit more now is a lot cheaper than ordering in single sets later. Whilst waiting the five or weeks for the above I am looking at getting the intercooler made. I have made a swirl pot for it, as the commercially available ones were too tall for where I want it to go, and the pipe fittings came out in the wrong places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Fully polished crank, £3700 if you want to buy a new one! Plus shipping.. http://www.toysport.com/New%20Products/Atlantic.htm Got some billet mains caps from the USA, and they are just good for paperweights or bits of steel to make something else out of. They turned out to have come off engines that had ALREADY been line bored and honed and on my 2 blocks they are out by 5 thou, in a negative direction, hence scrap. Not happy... Rather than *iss about any more I am having CAD drawings done and having 3 sets of caps machined up over here, so i can use 2 sets and have a spare set to sell or whatever. I also have to pay 500 quid towards a fixture to machine them and the correct hone for the guys Sunnen machine. It's been a nightmare finding someone to do this line boring and honing CORRECTLY, most places ain't got a clue. If you're thinking of having caps on a 2JZ-GTE let me know, my man has the 2JZ fixture for his CNC machine and access to proper caps that fit his fixture, but none of this sort of stuff is cheap. The digital piston rendering is done and JE are making pistons, and Carillo are making custom rods. Perfect Circle are making the ring packs. I have decided to get 2 sets of pistons made, so I have a spare, plus 3 sets of rings. Spending a bit more now is a lot cheaper than ordering in single sets later. Whilst waiting the five or weeks for the above I am looking at getting the intercooler made. I have made a swirl pot for it, as the commercially available ones were too tall for where I want it to go, and the pipe fittings came out in the wrong places. Blimey Chris, that lot doesn't sound cheap... There's this XS Power stuff on ebay I've heard about, sounds like you could have saved yourself a lot of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Chris, you're not going through all this development of the engine just for track days surely? You must do the decent thing and race it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 I'll see how it performs, basically I do these things `cos I enjoy doing it (most of the time....) The alternative was a different, more powerful engine, which, believe it or not, would have been more hassle and much more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondango Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Chris what sort of Space restrictions are you working too? Ps just a few pics on my comp that may give a few ideas.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Serious investment (time and money!), but a proper job (as much as I understand it!) so two thumbs up from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 The turbo side of things is done and dusted bondango, it's just engine internals, wiring and the IC to sort, really. Nice engine in the photos though, very impressive Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Just read the bit regarding the charging system... Your main worry is low voltage right? What about running a twin battery system to get it to 24v, and then use a high grade voltage regulator to get 14.4v out the other end, even with a drop to 16v over the 24v battery bank it should be able to give you smooth 14.4v with a suitable dc-dc convertor. You can get 12v dc-dc convertors but I worry about they way they pick up the voltage and it won't be noiseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Batteries are heavy though. Chris, is the Zeus running a total loss electrical system or whatever the correct terminology is? When you connectd it to a generator I think, were you charging the onboard battery at Llandow, I meant to ask. (Don't forget to sign up for this year's event BTW!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I am going to make a drive pulley on one of the gearbox side C/V joints and run a race weight alternator off the shaft. It's a bit of work, but the best way to do it I feel. Weight precludes a bigger battery, and voltage stability is what ECU's prefer. Thanks for the ideas though. The gennie was to charge the battery, yes. I usually charge it off a car, but the truck's 24 volt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Here are the CAD renderings for new billet mains caps, they are actually a lot better, strength wise, than the ludicrously expensive TRD ones, and can be made in a known decent material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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