caseys Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7694560.stm Death at show fuels US gun debate The boy was under supervision when the accident happened New questions have been raised about US gun laws after a boy aged eight shot himself in the head with a submachine gun at a Massachusetts weapons fair. Christopher Bizilj died after losing control of a recoiling Uzi submachine gun as he fired it at a pumpkin. Both the boy's father and an instructor were present when the accident happened on Sunday at the gun show in Westfield. State legislators are now considering drafting a bill banning under-21s from firing automatic weapons, reports say. "We should take swift action to provide some reasonable restrictions on this type of unreasonable practice," Congressman Michael Costello told the Boston Globe newspaper. "It's almost indescribable that within a year of leaving a booster seat, an eight-year-old can be holding a submachine gun." Strict laws The boy's father, Charles Bizilj, said he was 10ft (3m) behind Christopher when the accident happened at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo. Mr Bizilj told the Globe he had allowed his son to shoot the Uzi - which can fire hundreds of rounds a minute - because it was considered to have little recoil. He said Christopher had fired handguns and rifles before, but never an automatic weapon. "This is a horrible event, a horrible travesty, and I really don't know why it happened," said Mr Bizilj, a hospital director from Ashford, Connecticut. Police have described the incident as a "self-inflicted accidental shooting". But they are continuing to investigate whether the fair's organisers and Westfield Sportsmen's Club - the private shooting club where the gun show was held - held the appropriate licences. Massachusetts has strict gun laws that require parental consent and the presence of a certified and licensed instructor before a child is allowed to fire a weapon. ------- Says it all really. How on earth can someone let their 8 year old handle a fully automatic Uzi and not wonder what the recoil's going to do? Maybe parents should be reprimanded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Irresponsible idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hey it's people that kill- not guns. (Someone once said ) Very tragic all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Complete idiots and a tragic waste of life I fired a PM84 9mm submachine gun about a month ago, these are very similar to an UZI and there is no way I would hand it to an 8 year old. The father should be banged up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 A lot of American are very stupid indeed. Why the fixation with guns all the time? Insane country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 A lot of American are very stupid indeed. Why the fixation with guns all the time? Insane country. To be fair, the country is huge and with a huge population. There are bound (statistically) to be more deaths by guns. Saying that giving a machine gun to an 8 year old is daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 To be fair, the country is huge and with a huge population. There are bound (statistically) to be more deaths by guns. Saying that giving a machine gun to an 8 year old is daft. Population of USA approx 300,000,000 Population of UK approx 60,000,000 So far, the US population is only 5 times greater. Now then, Gun deaths per year USA: 11,0000 UK: 58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Population of USA approx 300,000,000 Population of UK approx 60,000,000 So far, the US population is only 5 times greater. Now then, Gun deaths per year USA: 11,0000 UK: 58 Your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Your point is? That the US clearly do not have a fixation with guns, in anyway, whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 That the US clearly do not have a fixation with guns, in anyway, whatsoever. Did I say they didnt? I simply said they are bound to have more deaths statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Did I say they didnt? I simply said they are bound to have more deaths statistically. It's somewhat dispraportionate though, no? You did start a sentence 'To be fair...' Perhaps the US gun death tally should only amount to 5 x 58? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Those responsible deserve shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 why give an 8 year old a gun? how absolutely stupid are americans?! loss of life thanks to complete idiots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 It's somewhat dispraportionate though, no? You did start a sentence 'To be fair...' Perhaps the US gun death tally should only amount to 6 x 58? I didn't suggest it wasn't disproprtionate or that they were not gun totting maniacs... simply made the point that they are slightly bigger than us so there are bound to be more gun killings. I should think there are more killings full stop. I wonder what proportion of deaths by drinking there are in the US to the UK. To be fair I did start with 'to be fair' but I wouldn't recommend interpeting anyting into 'to be fair', to be fair. The Americans have this funny thing called a constitution and everytime they try change it people get upset about civil liberties... they seem to have got themselves in a little rut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 To be fair I did start with 'to be fair' but I wouldn't recommend interpeting anyting into 'to be fair', to be fair. To be fair, you make a fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Population of USA approx 300,000,000 Population of UK approx 60,000,000 So far, the US population is only 5 times greater. Now then, Gun deaths per year USA: 11,0000 UK: 58 11001 now, to be fair No way the parent should be locked up, they have just lost their child to their own stupidity. I would call that punishment enough. What they should do is run a campaign showing the dangers, get the father on TV doing interviews etc. He should feel obliged to at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 11001 now, to be fair No way the parent should be locked up, they have just lost their child to their own stupidity. I would call that punishment enough. What they should do is run a campaign showing the dangers, get the father on TV doing interviews etc. He should feel obliged to at the very least. Fair comment. No really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 11001 now, to be fair No way the parent should be locked up, they have just lost their child to their own stupidity. I would call that punishment enough. What they should do is run a campaign showing the dangers, get the father on TV doing interviews etc. He should feel obliged to at the very least. I just don't get why even if they have guns why they think its ok to let an 8 year old hold a machine gun. They wouldn't let their 8 year old drive a car so why let him hold an instrument of death? edit: to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I just don't get why even if they have guns why they think its ok to let an 8 year old hold a machine gun. They wouldn't let their 8 year old drive a car so why let him hold an instrument of death? edit: to be fair Of course its not, but whats done is done. If the child had hurt themselves with the gun then i think the father should be doing time. Imagine losing your child through your own mistake though. Don't you think that is a fate far worse than any prison sentence? I'm not even a parent. Putting him in prison sends out no message whatsoever. At least on TV, publicly showing his grief and warning others might be seen and taken in by some people. If this sort of thing happened twice a year and a campaign cut it down to 1, its worth it straight away. Is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I didn't suggest it wasn't disproprtionate or that they were not gun totting maniacs... simply made the point that they are slightly bigger than us so there are bound to be more gun killings. I should think there are more killings full stop. Missed this one earlier TBF You never mentioned or implied the the word slightly at all. I wonder what proportion of deaths by drinking there are in the US to the UK. It's about the same proportionately as population differential. Alcohol related deaths per annum: UK:18,000 US:100,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Of course its not, but whats done is done. If the child had hurt themselves with the gun then i think the father should be doing time. Imagine losing your child through your own mistake though. Don't you think that is a fate far worse than any prison sentence? I'm not even a parent. Putting him in prison sends out no message whatsoever. At least on TV, publicly showing his grief and warning others might be seen and taken in by some people. If this sort of thing happened twice a year and a campaign cut it down to 1, its worth it straight away. Is it not? I kind of agree that if down to your own mistake you lost a child, the guilt alone would be punishment enough. However in this case the idiot father has said about the incident:- This is a horrible event, a horrible travesty, and I really don't know why it happened It happened because he was a big enough prat to be handing a machine gun to an 8 year old child. The fact that he doesn't even realise that his child is dead because of his neglectful parenting kind of suggests that he's unlikely to think that it was down to his own mistake. I imagine right now he's trying to find out who he should sue.... My personal opinion is that he should be treated like the guy over here who let his daughter ride a quad bike into the path of a Range Rover. At least that guy showed some remorse over the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 To be fair, the country is huge and with a huge population. There are bound (statistically) to be more deaths by guns. Saying that giving a machine gun to an 8 year old is daft. Population of USA approx 300,000,000 Population of UK approx 60,000,000 So far, the US population is only 5 times greater. Now then, Gun deaths per year USA: 11,0000 UK: 58 Your point is? To be fair, I think LBM was pointing out that the US has a much larger number of gun deaths pro rata than would be expected. I also think Mr Apple was under the impression that the USA had a much greater population in comparison to lil ole UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I kind of agree that if down to your own mistake you lost a child, the guilt alone would be punishment enough. However in this case the idiot father has said about the incident:- It happened because he was a big enough prat to be handing a machine gun to an 8 year old child. The fact that he doesn't even realise that his child is dead because of his neglectful parenting kind of suggests that he's unlikely to think that it was down to his own mistake. I imagine right now he's trying to find out who he should sue.... My personal opinion is that he should be treated like the guy over here who let his daughter ride a quad bike into the path of a Range Rover. At least that guy showed some remorse over the matter. Have to agree with you there. I guess i was looking at it from my point of view and how i would judge someone like myself. I thought his statement came accross like a 3rd party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The parent is to blame have to feel for the poor lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 We just don't understand the gun culture - it was just an accident: the kid had both parent supervision AND a shooting instructor, and the fact that it was permissible and legal suggests that an 8 year old firing such a weapon had been done before, and will be done again. He lost control and died - no different to any number of threads on here in remembrance of lost members. Plenty of people would wag their fingers and say how evil fast cars are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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