extendor Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 lots of builders like me are just waiting Sorry mate - I know you have to earn a living etc but I would have been more impressed if you had told us about what lessons you had learned and how your skills could have been put to use building affordable housing and discouraging greed rather than waiting for the whole merrygoround to start again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downimpact Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 middle/late next year i reckon, 3 months of recovery in the housing market then i'm going to buy a house, the question is whether to sell the exisiting one and jump up the ladder as far as possible (now it's slightly more compressed) or buy a second be super stretched careful while interest rates are still low and sell one once the market recovers, which it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Yeah slightly longer term housing wouldn't be a bad bet, but of course the decline is mirrored by the slump in the offers to lend money. As always, if you've got plenty of money and don't need to borrow any, it's easy(er) to make more. Either way it doesn't help 1st time buyers massively, of course what we want is reasonable prices and sensible lending, a happy medium. However, whilst housing is a safe bet, you could stand to make many fold increases in your money even within a few days and weeks with shrewd investment in stocks, without lifting a finger. Naturally the same catch applies, you need the spare money when times are harder and to be able to afford to lose it - but he who dares wins, some people are going to line their pockets out of this (as always!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 What it have to do with leading? He just took tons of taxpayers money and pumped it into 3 banks, practically nationalising them. Other follow his lead, because if they don't, they would see pretty soon huge stream of money flowing into UK, as UK banks are sorted for now, when others are not. Even if it would fail, he will just say "I take all responsibility for this" blah blah and then retire to enjoy tons of money he got during his reign. Big deal... really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Didnt he reside over the 'Black Wednesday' farce, and us crashing out of the ERM... great example there! And this is any better!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I guess one way to look at it was that there wasn't much choice in helping those banks out, but then again it's not something to be taken for granted, much detail to be agreed etc. Although it appears rather like nationalisation of those banks, in fact the government has bought preferred stocks (which is more akin to a bond) and this also means they don't have voting rights - in a way it's a like a loan with fixed dividend (15% I think isn't it?), so it's not quite the same as nationalisation. The only thing is I think it's open ended purchase of the preferred stocks, so who knows when the money will be recouped (not until the country is back on it's feet that's for sure). But, again this is all far far better than letting major banks go bust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Anyway, on a lighter note, could this be the end of capitalism? lol This government has put more red tape and extra taxes than any before it. The best chancellor was Norman Lamont by the way, he scrapped a tax in every budget he announced as Chancellor!! It was Labours deregulation of the financial industry that is partly responsible for this mess in the first place. The American style of capitalism is to have a laissez-faire system, in which the market makes the decisions and government interferes as little as possible. The traditional socialist system is heavy state control. It was Thatcher who took us very much further toward the American position. Lamont cut taxes because again, that's the Reaganomics/Thatcher way - low taxes and minimal investment in public services. On the plus side, giving business more control + low taxation for all means massive wealth creation and a boost to the economy. It also makes a country's business more competitive,which tends to force other countries along the same path (this is the dilemma France has been forced into). By the time Brown and Blair came on the scene, they saw the writing was on the wall for the old socialist model (and they admired Thatcher/USA anyway). But the natural tendency for capitalism is for money to flow upward to the top of the pyramid. And the markets and the financial industries don't regulate themselves. Left to itself, the market creates a house of cards that will inevitably collapse. Maybe it's an oversimplification (I don't really understand economics very well), but it seems to me that you can't have it both ways. American model = huge wealth creation, poor wealth distribution, high risk, periodic collapse. Old school socialist model = less wealth, less competitive industry + maybe collapse too, high taxation. The 'third way' is the path of European countries like Finland, which we threw out (while everyone was cheering about the tax cuts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 with capitalism, boom and bust seems to be a natural long term self regulating process (I mean over the span of decades) - I guess the shock is more that it always catches people out when it comes around. you could turn it on it's head and say irresponsible lending from mortgage brokers and lenders, or irresponsible borrowing from the general public at large. has a socialist system ever succeeded with a strong economy though, it seems this model is flawed to slow bust without the boom to balance it, at least after a bust we might hope to rally back to where we once were again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 has a socialist system ever succeeded with a strong economy though, it seems this model is flawed to slow bust without the boom to balance it, at least after a bust we might hope to rally back to where we once were again. I think full-on socialism can't compete with full-on capitalism in any shape or form. And yes, with competition strangled, it sows the seeds of it's own destruction. There's got to be a sensible compromise. Back to Brown: on Newsnight just now, the Danish finance minister (I think) was lauding Brown as a hero. The US also did a huuuuuge turnaround in adopting the UK model. Interesting - for a lot of his time in office, Blair too was lauded abroad and unpopular at home. Maybe it will be the same story for Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 Gotta say - no matter what you think of him - the guy did well! Basically if and when share return to their value before the crash - he will actually make the taxpayer £150 Billion... So come on then Cameron - you smarmy Blair wannabe - not so smug now are we with your Lynda Lee-Potter Daily Mail middle England 'I aint got no policies - we just say anything to get in' grin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 my tax went to the treasury like everyone else's Ah, it must be my money your lot are spending on prescription charges, uni grants etc then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Glad that we have had Gordon looking after this crisis - rather than the empty suit in charge of the old etonian Conservatives... ...any thoughts? Sorry, I hate Gordon Brown, he's a complete and utter w@**er! Since Labour have been in, 120 + stealth taxes have been introduced and he wants to increase the "low emissions" by not 60% but by 80%... Im sorry but the UK has the least amount of emissions unlike the the USA, China, Japan etc. But we get charged the most for this, ridiculous!! It's his fault that we are all in this recession because he spent all of our bloody money, so guess what, to make his money back up out of the hole he has dug himself in, will increase TAXES AGAIN!! So expect income tax to rise, fuel tax, road tax, energy bills, anything, so he can charge us MORE money!! Which brings me onto my next subject, the UK has the highest amount of income TAX ,council TAX, Road TAX, fuel TAX etc... Sorry, I don't buy into his crap, he is a very bad leader and so are Labour. I mean even the law is wrong, WE pay for criminals to have an education, WE pay for mental patients as they get cash every week at our expense, WE pay for chav's and people on benefit's and WE pay for making our country better, even though the roads are crap and there is more killing, drug use and maiming on the streets than ever. It is a worse crime not to pay taxes than for a criminal to commit a crime and just get away with a fine... What the hell is that all about?! I don't think that he suitable to run this country at all! At least conservatives will pull us out of this hole from the damage Brown has done... It's just bloody stupid and roll on the next general election... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Sorry, I hate Gordon Brown, he's a complete and utter w@**er! Since Labour have been in, 120 + stealth taxes have been introduced and he wants to increase the "low emissions" by not 60% but by 80%... Im sorry but the UK has the least amount of emissions unlike the the USA, China, Japan etc. But we get charged the most for this, ridiculous!! It's his fault that we are all in this recession because he spent all of our bloody money, so guess what, to make his money back up out of the hole he has dug himself in, will increase TAXES AGAIN!! So expect income tax to rise, fuel tax, road tax, energy bills, anything, so he can charge us MORE money!! Which brings me onto my next subject, the UK has the highest amount of income TAX ,council TAX, Road TAX, fuel TAX etc... Sorry, I don't buy into his crap, he is a very bad leader and so are Labour. I mean even the law is wrong, WE pay for criminals to have an education, WE pay for mental patients as they get cash every week at our expense, WE pay for chav's and people on benefit's and WE pay for making our country better, even though the roads are crap and there is more killing, drug use and maiming on the streets than ever. It is a worse crime not to pay taxes than for a criminal to commit a crime and just get away with a fine... What the hell is that all about?! I don't think that he suitable to run this country at all! At least conservatives will pull us out of this hole from the damage Brown has done... It's just bloody stupid and roll on the next general election... Evening Shane. So how, in your view, will they do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Evening Shane. So how, in your view, will they do this? Evening...well...morning actually I think Mr Cameron will pull us out by making this country safer to live in, reduction in the taxes that Labour have put upon us, change the law slightly by adopting the American's veiew of things; You don't work, you don't earn... I believe Mr Cameron actually talks to us like people and that he actually wants to help us and try to make use of OUR wasted money that labour has thrown away. David Cameron and the Conservatives will make this country fairer to live in because quite frankly, i have had it with Labour and their bull****! If it was a fully Labour run country, would you really want your bins collected once every two weeks?! I know I wouldn't, that is the most ludicrous idea that I have ever heard!! If Brown cared about the public, then he wouldn't of done the raise in Road Tax and also done the 10p Tax row thing... Why do you think wasters have voted for Labour for so long and that's why that they are still in "charge"... In Brown's vision, this country will be like a communist state and everything we do will be "watched" and if you commit a crime, you'll be fine but if you don't pay your tax, jail sentence... For example, an ILLEGAL immagrant who does not have a driving licence, kills a man and ONLY gets a fine!! An old Lady who has served in the war and helped this country, forgets to pay her council tax, gets locked up! Where's the justice in that?! Or even this one I read in the paper on sunday, an 101 year old woman who has served in both WWI and WWII and has dementia, gets kicked out of her nursing home because they can't afford to keep her?! That's absurd!! I would like to bet that the public health sector such as the NHS, nursing homes etc will be in alot better state if it was run by the conservatives, not spent on crap like Labour do... Like I said, it is Brown and Labour which have put us in this recession! So far, the Conservatives are winning on votes and rightly so, just because Brown has an arguement with one of his colleagues, he fires them!! I think he has lost 12 MP's in his cabinet so far, responsible?? Yeah right! Even his own cabinet doesn't agree and lost faith in with what he is saying and his abilities, good leader isn't he?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I shall return to this in the morning or afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I shall return to this in the morning or afternoon All because you know that I am right and that Gordon Brown is a w@**** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 i agree with shane in some respect. labour government is taking the living p*$$ with us the tax payers. anything needs to be done 'ok lets drain the public'. if you see details on what tax payers money is being spent on most of it will get ur blood boiling. i remember reading somebody from the labour party spent £10,000 of tax payers money on propoganda! personally conservative and labour should join forces to make a better run country, both sides have flaws but together i think they can make a good system. as far as the crisis goes. its pathetic! it was predicted such a long time ago that this will happen but the fat cats with their greed carried on and didnt give a sh*t and now where in this mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 what you seriously need to take into account is that over the years politicians have promised a lot, regardless of party or country. once their in power suddenly the promises are fading and other stuff is happening...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 All because you know that I am right and that Gordon Brown is a w@**** Ok I'm back...yes you are right and Gordon Brown blah blah blah Must sleep. PS you're wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 gordon brown looks like a 1980's head teacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 i agree with shane in some respect. labour government is taking the living p*$$ with us the tax payers. anything needs to be done 'ok lets drain the public'. if you see details on what tax payers money is being spent on most of it will get ur blood boiling. i remember reading somebody from the labour party spent £10,000 of tax payers money on propoganda! personally conservative and labour should join forces to make a better run country, both sides have flaws but together i think they can make a good system. as far as the crisis goes. its pathetic! it was predicted such a long time ago that this will happen but the fat cats with their greed carried on and didnt give a sh*t and now where in this mess! Yeh but we just sit back and take and take and take it!! Enough is enough! Like I said, most hard working families earn their money each month and the Income tax, NHS and national insurance goes...where exactly?? I mean for christ sake, look at Martin Win's little lad (a member on here) it's bloody disgusting and should not be allowed to happen!! Bums and waster's are the only ones who vote for Labour because they can sponge off of OUR money from our paychecks each month! I personally know a waster as it is my ex, she now has a baby which I am paying for each month, she is a complete bum and a waster... She and her BOYfriend have a house now, have been moved 3 times and get alot of money each month on benefits and child maintenance. For what exactly?!! Im trying to save for a house/flat with my current Girlfriend, we can't afford a bloody house, it's impossible!! like it is for everyone else, but oh no, sort the waster's out!! Even our troops get the short straw, they have to do so many tours of duty in order to get insurance for pay out's of injury/loss of limb/life... When they come back they get....NOTHING even though they serve their country!! Like I said...Labour!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Ok I'm back...yes you are right and Gordon Brown blah blah blah Must sleep. PS you're wrong No i'm not and you know it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 dude as far as the NHS goes dont even get me started! my appendix burst i was throwing up black fluids and u know what i was in accident and emergency for 2 hours drinking seven up and paracetamols because the doctors and nurses thought i had a stomach bug! i could have died, i was on dialasis machine (blood cleaning machine) for a few days. everyone claims benefits. im sick and tired of seeing lazy a$$'s sitting in their council houses doing jack all day why people like us work long stressful hours just to make a living. i studied sociology and all thanks to these crappy labour policies we will still be here paying for others to get drunk and for poor sick children having to gamble their lives. but like i said before shane, labour has screwed up a lot of things, what makes you the think any other party can fix the problems? more than anything what if it gets worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 dude as far as the NHS goes dont even get me started! my appendix burst i was throwing up black fluids and u know what i was in accident and emergency for 2 hours drinking seven up and paracetamols because the doctors and nurses thought i had a stomach bug! i could have died, i was on dialasis machine (blood cleaning machine) for a few days. everyone claims benefits. im sick and tired of seeing lazy a$$'s sitting in their council houses doing jack all day why people like us work long stressful hours just to make a living. i studied sociology and all thanks to these crappy labour policies we will still be here paying for others to get drunk and for poor sick children having to gamble their lives. but like i said before shane, labour has screwed up a lot of things, what makes you the think any other party can fix the problems? more than anything what if it gets worse? Exactly mate, I agree 100% BUT David Cameron recently gave a speech saying that the Conservative party WILL change Labour's mistake's and from these few example's, it can clearly be seen what needs to change and what the Conservative's can do for this country, troops and the public... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 obviously the conservatives would say that. they have to say that to gain the voters confidence. i really dont know how this country let itself get so bad. getting involved in others affairs whilst its own affairs are going out of control! i really dont feel safe or secure anymore. people are being robbed and killed all the time, moneys is being ripped from us, no changes are being made to help. seems like the rich and famous will only be able to get through the harder times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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