chilli Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Despite what people think of him, I'd say he's got the best credentials to be leading us out of this financial mess - at least he's walked the walk. But, regardless, room for manuover is limited and it's a global problem. Our govt cannot get us out of this alone, we are going to pay the price for some very irresponsible lending! Interestingly (ironically) I was in the city for some training on equities today hehe - we studied some graphs and figures, blimey - it's actually worse than I was aware (and I'm probably more aware than the average Joe for one reason and another). There's a lot of "why do the banks get bailed out when they screw up, whereas this company or an individual has to pay the price for a screw up" - the problem is if some of the key banks, holding companies, underwriters and lenders are allowed to fold, we'd be in a seriously worse position, many times over. Rock and a hard place anybody? Current volatility seems bonkers, if that is stabilised by intervention then over time there is a road to recovery, if not, god only knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruggs Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 but I would think that the best chances lie with a heavyweight brain who has been studying the economy for years and who was - until very recently - regarded as one of the best chancellors we've ever had. Thats the thing the more economically minded people in industry and financing tend not to have held that opinion of him. Yes very smart, but at trying to hid his overall goal. He managed to mis-manage a hugh period of economic boom and unfortunately this has been aligned to the collaspe of the banking sector due to completely irresponsible lending on a global basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hey - you go play with your own parliament - you aint part of this country... no problem, if you can just get the treasury to cut me a check for all that naughty tax they've been charging me i'll be on my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 They already paid it to your parliament mate - go ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Thats the thing the more economically minded people in industry and financing tend not to have held that opinion of him. Yes very smart, but at trying to hid his overall goal. He managed to mis-manage a hugh period of economic boom and unfortunately this has been aligned to the collaspe of the banking sector due to completely irresponsible lending on a global basis. I'd dispute that. Industry and financial leaders always want more tax breaks etc to stimulate growth and productivity. But they approach the economy solely from a self-interested point of view, always ready with the claim that it will trickle down to the rest of us. On the other hand, public sector leaders always want higher taxes to fund improvements. Both have reasons to be disatisfied with him, because neither got their own way entirely. I remember The Times economic editor ranking him as the second best chancellor in recent times (I can't remember who was first) Probably his biggest problem was the complication of the taxation system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I love the song that The Stranglers wrote about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I heard an ammusing one the other day: Darling & Brown = Drowning. It was Labours deregulation of the financial industry that is partly responsible for this mess in the first place. Ironic really for the red tape party (you have to laugh at some of the new laws they created, such as "it is illegal to detonate a nuclear device" - which you have to admit, was covered by a few other laws before) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 They already paid it to your parliament mate - go ask them. my tax went to the treasury like everyone else's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Also: As prime minister, no matter what he does now, I think he's doomed to be kicked out at the next election for several reasons: (a) he has made some balls-ups that are genuinely his fault. But more importantly, (b) he's presided over a period of time when there has been lots of bad news and, without being snobby about it, the average voter can't disentangle the effects of world trends and the effects of his leadership © labour have been in power for a long time, and as memories fade of the previous government, it's assumed that a different leadership would cope better (d) he doesn't have the easy TV-friendly chumminess that we've grown used to. Blair had perfect-pitch empathy when he most needed it (e.g. 9/11 and Princess Di); Brown will never have that and it's a real liability in elections. I just want an English government to look after us English people and maybe think about helping others with spare cash, but I don't want them to require spare cash. Basically I want a lower cost of living. I really think that there is too much wastage and that a lower cost of living could be had if money wasn't spent in unnecessary ways. Whoever had those same ambitions would get my vote, whatever the party. I can't help thinking Mr Conservative looks like a gay pussy wimp though - not exactly confidence inspiring. Are my wishes just 'typically selfish and impossible', or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruggs Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I can't help thinking Mr Conservative looks like a gay pussy wimp though - not exactly confidence inspiring. I'm not a tory..or anything for that matter as I think they are all useless but the funny thing is in my opinion probably the best tory candidate would actually be a "gay pussy" in Portillo. But i dont think he'd be convinced into doing it as he wants to keep his private lilfe away from media interrogation. Not that he should have anything to hide about his lifestyle choice in today's society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm not a tory..or anything for that matter as I think they are all useless but the funny thing is in my opinion probably the best tory candidate would actually be a "gay pussy" in Portillo. But i dont think he'd be convinced into doing it as he wants to keep his private lilfe away from media interrogation. Not that he should have anything to hide about his lifestyle choice in today's society. I didn't mean gay as in homosexual per se. I find Portillo quite respectable. I don't find Cameron remotely respectable. He's not exactly a tower of power is he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 It was Labours deregulation of the financial industry that is partly responsible for this mess in the first place. I think it was Bush's policies in the US that made more of an issue. This is a global problem caused by the huge credit crunch emanating from the states.. this is why every rich country on earth is following what he is doing. You can't blame him for whats happened as much as we'd like to think the UK is the center of the world economy, it aint! What makes me laugh is that I couldn't hear anyone crying about house prices going up and people making a killing off that... thats his biggest failing in my opinion, not looking out for the first time buyers and just letting the prices balloon to ridiculous levels for crap properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I'm not sure I fully understand people who blame the British government for getting us into this mess, as if this was a solely British problem or somehow we are detached or can be insulated from word wide events. Whilst there have been problems and mistakes in our government (as always)... this is a global phenomena, affecting large parts of the world including France and Germany, much of Europe and if you want to point the blame anywhere, you have to look initially at the American (USA) irresponsible* mortgage lending crisis in which trillions where at stake and the top players where at serious risk of going bust because of a loss of market liquidity and the reluctance of word wide banks to lend each other money - I'd have thought this is largely the place to seek blame, the UK government's part to play in this is influential at best! do people not see it like that? I know it sounds like a cliché but the stock markets are today truly a global market and public companies can be valued one day at 1bn, next week at 100m and in the next minute suddenly go bust when these markets cease to operate within stable parameters. Anyway, on a lighter note, could this be the end of capitalism? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 People are actually worse off under Blair and Brown!! a lot worse off. The gold fiasco, which Brown sold gold to fund the euro!! the 10p tax fiasco!! The EU referendum fiasco!! His new Business Minister Mandelson, yeh right!! In government and forced to resign twice!! EU trade commisioner who deals with a rich Russian aluminium magnate, whoes dept is investigating trade import tariff's This government has put more red tape and extra taxes than any before it. The best chancellor was Norman Lamont by the way, he scrapped a tax in every budget he announced as Chancellor!! Brown is a chump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Anyway, on a lighter not, could this be the end of capitalism? lol Indeed, 'Karl Marx must be spinning in his grave!' -Heard that on 5 Live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 This government has put more red tape and extra taxes than any before it. The best chancellor was Norman Lamont by the way, he scrapped a tax in every budget he announced as Chancellor!! Didnt he reside over the 'Black Wednesday' farce, and us crashing out of the ERM... great example there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 What makes me laugh is that I couldn't hear anyone crying about house prices going up and people making a killing off that... thats his biggest failing in my opinion, not looking out for the first time buyers and just letting the prices balloon to ridiculous levels for crap properties. It's nice that people seem to be accepting the fact that houses aren't worth what they were valued at. I seem to remember suggesting a loaf of bread wouldn't be worth buying if it was a tenner.. Now even the banks seem to be accepting the fact that their collateral (the houses) for loans is no where near enough in value for the loans that were given. It looks like things are finally sorting themselves out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruggs Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 It's nice that people seem to be accepting the fact that houses aren't worth what they were valued at. I seem to remember suggesting a loaf of bread wouldn't be worth buying if it was a tenner.. Now even the banks seem to be accepting the fact that their collateral (the houses) for loans is no where near enough in value for the loans that were given. It looks like things are finally sorting themselves out The valuation of property is primarily the reason behind the downfall of HBOS. Basically their bank has been brought down by one specific corporate department which had a loan order book of £119billion And most of that was secured on property and other paper valuations. When that started to fall apart thats when they went downhill quickly. Unfortunately its the same for most of the banks as they bought a lot of sub prime order books from the US. With each economy now being much more interlinked than previously that has increased the impact of the US crash on other markets and the UK banks were heavily into those order books. The government is making HBOS, RBS and Llyods pay a big price for the rescue packages with the controlling interests but fair play. It serves the banks right for irresponsible lending and huge paper gains that gave the big wigs nice bonuses. I just hope they make sure that these guys arent the ones that benefit from the rescue packages. Hopefully, although we have nationalised 4 banks in effect recently it might see the government generate additional funds through this mechanism rather than increase taxes further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruggs Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 On a lighter note though. Up in glasgow the Barclays branch received £77mill of transfers from HBOS in one week after the HBOS crash was announced. In an affluent Glasgow area ( I know contraction in terms! ) the HBOS branch indicated millions of pounds worth of withdrawals that were not going back into the system. So that means that in this particular area that there are millions under peoples beds....I always thought that those steel bull bars on the Hilux Surf would be useful for ram raiding.....time to find out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I think it was Bush's policies in the US that made more of an issue. This is a global problem caused by the huge credit crunch emanating from the states.. this is why every rich country on earth is following what he is doing. You can't blame him for whats happened as much as we'd like to think the UK is the center of the world economy, it aint! What makes me laugh is that I couldn't hear anyone crying about house prices going up and people making a killing off that... thats his biggest failing in my opinion, not looking out for the first time buyers and just letting the prices balloon to ridiculous levels for crap properties. Hence partly responsible in my post. The lax regulations meant people could legally self certify for mortgage applications for loans they could not afford except at the very lowest interest rate level, a friend of mine earning £30k had a 10x mortgage- even with three lodgers and moving his g/f in he still couldn't keep up with the repayments when the interest rates went up a few years ago and lost the house. It was crazy loans that helped push prices up, sane people couldn't (or wouldn't) compete while the nutters were outbidding each other, and it was all legal. It goes without saying this started in America, which is why I didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I just want to know if anyone is thinking like me, now might be a good time to by some shares (of the right sort)! ironically the banks now propped up by the govt are the safest place to put your money. All those queues to take the money out, should see people queuing to put it back again (but we don't lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 It was Labours deregulation of the financial industry that is partly responsible for this mess in the first place. ) I think that you will find that the de-regulation of the Building Societies was Margeret Thatcher...the well know Labour candidate for Finchley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff meade Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I just want to know if anyone is thinking like me, now might be a good time to by some shares (of the right sort)! ironically the banks now propped up by the govt are the safest place to put your money. All those queues to take the money out, should see people queuing to put it back again (but we don't lol) dont know about shares but keep an eye on the housing market it could be months or a few years but as soon as they start to go up buy..buy..buy then do them up then sell sell sell lol lots of builders like me are just waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 What makes me laugh is that I couldn't hear anyone crying about house prices going up and people making a killing off that... Sorry, what planet have you been on. Here in Devon (and we are not alone in this) there is NO HOPE of a local person on an average income ever affording to buy a house. In my opinion the whole greedy lot who have forced all the hope out of thousands of hard working people by banging up house prices and selling credit to sustain the unsustainable shoud stew in their own juice. There have been thousands of people shouting about this for years but whilst everyone was looking to their selfish selves it never made the mainstream news. Its time for common sense and common decency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonball Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 What makes me laugh is that I couldn't hear anyone crying about house prices going up and people making a killing off that... . Dont get me wrong - I have done alright by it...but you are sooo right! Greed done us in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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