Paul Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 too right - about time we get some rulings with balls - or shall i say thats prepared to chop some balls As long as they chop the ones on your shoulders first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 To further this debate ajazyasin, how does the modern biomedical world decribe the popular experiment results in my previous post whereby under short time conditions no bacteria survive if not given enough reproduction time? Yet, if they are allowed enough reproduction time then the bacteria grows again? Totally sealed conditions with heat being the primary factor to control the reproductive time scales. One of my best friend's wife works in the Pharmaceutical testing business and I also have an interest in Chemistry and science in general. I often have discussion with her about various developments in the science world. She has decribed these simple bacteria experiments many times to me and I also remember doing something siliar in 'A' level chemistry where we were 'playing' with simple mould to show evolution. The main point of the bacteria experiments is to show that under short time conditions of the test (cold environment), the toxic environment kills off 100% of the bacteria... when the petri dish is then brought back to normal temperature ....still no re-growth. This suggests that none of the bacteria have anything in-built into it to suggest adaption. BUT, under warmer conditions where the bacteria reproduce at a much faster rate, and enough reproduction cycles have been factored in.... then initially most.. (something like 99.99%) of the bateria die out.... and then after the petri dish is brought back to normal conditions, over an amount of time the bacteria is once again seen to be growing. This can surely only suggest that the 'new' bacteria is the one that is able to survive.... and therefore only mutation has allowed it. But as you say what is observed by one person can be interperated by that person in his/her own way. And if beliefs of 'higher powers' come into the equation then this is going to biass his/her opinion of what is being observed. This is not meant as a derrogatory comment by the way.... just basically my view of the world. Maybe the cold is doing more than just slowing down their reproduction. Perhaps it's weakening the bacteria and suppressing their ability to fight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 So what's the difference between adaption and evolution? Is adaptation to do with the baceria (in these examples) changin to suite the toxic environment, and evolution being the bacteria who come from the surviving bacteria are already immune, or have a resistance to the same toxic environment due to the adaptation of the previous remaining bacteria? This stuff really interests me, the way things work, etc. My beliefs on religion are that it's used to control the masses. It was used as scare tactics (you can't do this, or that because if you do you'll spend eternity in Hell) and yes, to a certain degree it worked. Everyone adapted to religion in their everyday lives and lived by the rules set by that reigion. If there were no religion, we'd only have state laws controlling us, no actual fear of the eternity of the afterlife, and no rewards for a life that was deemed 'good' by whatever religion is in. Next the Cold War was used as scare tactics to keep people in check, and now it's global warming! Religion is down to using power to control people, and using it as an excuse for things that happen in the world, be it natural disasters, people dying, whatever, it's because they were sinners, or God is angry and will destroy us! Nothing to do with the placement of the moon, or the temperatures affecting pressure, or the fact that sometimes people have accidents and die, or get shot by idiots with guns... God didn't do it, a person did! and God didn't destroy your town, the weather did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 god is a device invented by humans for many purposes. first because as animals we are naturally afraid, it is a survival instict. second because when we became self aware we need to explain everything and what we could not explain we make up. third it is a fantastic controlling device, a promise you can't guarantee but has such a negative downside people subscribe in masses. everyone is entitled to believe this stuff if they want but it is a wonder in this day and age why instead of progressing away from what is a primative belief it is in fact gaining ground. it is also amazing how ready christians are prepared to believe in what 2000 year old arabs had to say when they would not trust a modern arab as far as they could see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 god is a device invented by humans for many purposes. first because as animals we are naturally afraid, it is a survival instict. second because when we became self aware we need to explain everything and what we could not explain we make up. third it is a fantastic controlling device, a promise you can't guarantee but has such a negative downside people subscribe in masses. Thank you for explaining it all for us. Care to prove/disprove his existance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 first, you're welcome. last, it is not necessary. can you prove there is no santa clause? etc etc. just let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 first, you're welcome. (That made me laugh cheers) Yes I can prove there was no Santa Clause. Proving if there was a Santa Claus might be harder but then there is strong evidence to suggest that his name derived from Saint Nicholas and thus he did exist at some point in time. With regard to why people have not abandoned religion for science, science has progressed nowhere near enough to egotistically claim that it has disproved the existence of God. Nor shall it ever. I find it difficult to think that anybody would be closed entirely to the idea of God even if they are an atheist. Personally I love the theory suggested by Pascal: The claim that it is in our interests to believe in God is supported by a consideration of the possible consequences of belief and unbelief. If we believe in God, the argument runs, then if he exists then we will receive an infinite reward in heaven while if he does not then we have lost little or nothing. If we do not believe in God, the argument continues, then if he exists then we will receive an infinite punishment in hell while he does not then we will have gained little or nothing. Either receiving an infinite reward in heaven or losing little or nothing is clearly preferable to either receiving an infinite punishment in hell or gaining little or nothing. It is therefore in our interests, and so rational, to believe in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I find it difficult to think that anybody would be closed entirely to the idea of God even if they are an atheist. I am... No other animals on earth worship any kind of God. They live, they reproduce, and they die. Dogs don't commit sins by sniffing other dog's bums and are then sentenced to eternity in Hell... They're dogs... They sniff other dogs bums, it's natural. As long as the dog gets to eat, protects it's territory and passes on it's genes to another generation, it can die happy in the knowledge it's fulfilled it's design. Burrying bones, chasing sticks and eating your shoes is all fun in the mean time! Why can't people jut live their lives as nature intended, and not argue and go to war over who's God really exists, who's beliefs are right, or who' God has the biggest c**k? You're born, just learn, co-operate with your fellow human beings, live a good happy life, find a mate, pass on your genes, grow old and tell tales of your life to your children/grand children, and pass away leaving the rest to your offspring. What's so hard about that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I am... No other animals on earth worship any kind of God. They live, they reproduce, and they die. Dogs don't commit sins by sniffing other dog's bums and are then sentenced to eternity in Hell... They're dogs... They sniff other dogs bums, it's natural. As long as the dog gets to eat, protects it's territory and passes on it's genes to another generation, it can die happy in the knowledge it's fulfilled it's design. Burrying bones, chasing sticks and eating your shoes is all fun in the mean time!?? How do you know that? You simply presume. Very much like we used to presume the world was flat. My point is that one should never close your mind totally to any possibility. Why can't people jut live their lives as nature intended, See the catch there... are you suggesting nature intended us to act in a way... sounds a lot like a predetermined fate to me (i.e. 'nature' is playing the role of a god). Again supports my above point. You're born, just learn, co-operate with your fellow human beings, live a good happy life, find a mate, pass on your genes, grow old and tell tales of your life to your children/grand children, and pass away leaving the rest to your offspring. What's so hard about that?? I don't know... its pretty sad isn't it that we can't be like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 How do you know that? You simply presume. Very much like we used to presume the world was flat. My point is that one should never close your mind totally to any possibility. I've never seen a dog build a house of prayer of say a few thanks before eating anything. Dogs don't have the intelligence to think of anything other than what they know. People invented religion. Yes, we used to think the world was flat, but that was a long time ago. I think you can agree we know a LOT more about the world and everything else than we did back then! I understand fully that people may want to keep an open mind, I have an open mind, just not in religion. I've seen and experienced a lot about it and I've made an informed descision that I think it's completely fraudulent. See the catch there... are you suggesting nature intended us to act in a way... sounds a lot like a predetermined fate to me (i.e. 'nature' is playing the role of a god). Again supports my above point. Nature intends us to act in certain ways as that's how we NEEDED to behave in order to survive, so that information is passed on genetically to keep us alive. If we ran around doing whatever then we'd die out. That's probably happened many a time in the history of the earth!! I don't know... its pretty sad isn't it that we can't be like that. It is. You'd think that as we became more civilised, we'd be more... Well... Civilised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I bought a pair of shoes today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 So what's the difference between adaption and evolution? The way I see it is that adaption suggests that there is some 'already installed' inherent mechanism to overcome any harmful environments. It suggests that DNA already has all the answers, as if it already knows all the possible environments it will ever encounter. Whereas evolution suggests that livings things mutate and the small percentage of 'correct' mutations are the ones that are able to survive new environments. Well... DNA mutates all the time when life reproduces. It is why we all have different faces, different finger prints etc. Some DNA mutations create a life that is not able to survive its environment.... some DNA mutations create a life that is able to survive. The ones that do survive pass on this mutation to its off-spring. The off-spring then keeps this mutation or develops it further... and hence we grew lungs instead of gills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Yet another thread about muslim law why? Just let it happen and get on with life. Nothing you do or say on here will make any difference so why bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Yet another thread about muslim law why? Just let it happen and get on with life. Nothing you do or say on here will make any difference so why bother. Sounds like a Barrack Obama supporter if ever there was one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Yet another thread about muslim law why? Just let it happen and get on with life. Nothing you do or say on here will make any difference so why bother. Well said and to the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Good luck to anyone who can earn their own way and get far in this god forsaken country we call???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 1. Why did god suddenly appear 2000 years ago (I am using the christian calender here!!) where was he before that? 2. If I don't believe in god then I won't go to heaven, but I can't go to hell because I don't believe in satan? 3. Why is my bible incomplete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 1. Why did god suddenly appear 2000 years ago (I am using the christian calender here!!) where was he before that? It was his son, not him... History of God is a WAY longer than time, when Jesus was born. 2. If I don't believe in god then I won't go to heaven, but I can't go to hell because I don't believe in satan? I think that christians are explaining this this way: if you are good man, no matter what you belive, you will go to heaven 3. Why is my bible incomplete? eh? BTW. why everyone is using christian religion to argue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I bought a pair of shoes today. Nice were they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I'm not I'm athiest (sp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 1. Why did god suddenly appear 2000 years ago (I am using the christian calender here!!) where was he before that? Good point this one. Christianity existed before a bunch of nutters developed/made up Islam, before which a previous bunch of nutters developed/made up Christianity. Religion is only for the weak minded (or if you are brought up in a religious family, the brain-washed from birth). Religion is like politics and many other personal beliefs - it's endocrine from a very, very young age so forms a part of who you are. Personally I couldn't care less about religion, if people want to believe that sort of stuff then go for it. IRL I want to hear as much about peoples religion as I do about their choice of reality TV program, it's much the same level of intellectual thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 it's endocrine from a very, very young age so forms a part of who you are Its those bloody hormones again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 1. Why did god suddenly appear 2000 years ago (I am using the christian calender here!!) where was he before that? he/she was allways here (he/she was just in here in a different format) It was 2008 years ago Jesus died not God was Born,. we as humans have allways believed in a superior being/creator, its also worth noting that we only derived the capablity to actualy write things down around 2000 years ago,. well ok, 4000 but that was stone tablets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRALOOPY Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Its all Rubbish. We are all the same but we have this need to be different? Its inbuilt and there is nothing we can do. So get on with it. All you do gooders who think you know best....SHUT THE FOOOOOOK UP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Its those bloody hormones again. Oops It's not those hormones (at least I hope not!), it's the fat fingers and Westons cider that cause the typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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