Mike B Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Cast manifolds on bigger turbos. Thinking of putting a cast manifold on my T67. The tubular is still not right (I had it welded but still think there is a leak) and fancy a stronger midrange. I know wez makes good power with his slightly smaller tubby so was wondering if anyone had fitted one to a bigger tubby??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I have a T67DBB on one of Arnout's manifolds. It made 625bhp with the last engine, it should make more once I've finished building the new engine as that one has a ported head and I'll probably change to a larger A/R exhaust housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I have a T67DBB on one of Arnout's manifolds. It made 625bhp with the last engine, it should make more once I've finished building the new engine as that one has a ported head and I'll probably change to a larger A/R exhaust housing. What dyno is that on Simon? what A/R was it on and what are you thinking of changing to? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonB Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 That was on Owen development's dyno. It's a .68 A/R housing at the moment, which is what pretty much everyone with a T67 runs I think - it's a Precision turbo and that's the default size I think. Haven't really decided yet but I think I might try 0.81. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 It'll be fine, trust me If you saw the size of manifold runners Nissan used on the R90CK car, and Toyota on their GTP cars, both capable of nearly 1000 real BHP, then you'd know that you don't need big runner volume to make good spool and amazing top end power. I just wish i had my camera with me a month or so back, i was lucky enough to be given free reign over the R90CK and the turbo install was very educational. Anout's manifold runner volume and short length will give great spool and unless you are into building a serious drag engine on race fuel it won't be a limitation. Seems my predictions of a few years ago about cheap tubular manifolds and cheap turbos wasn't a million miles off the mark.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Seems my predictions of a few years ago about cheap tubular manifolds and cheap turbos wasn't a million miles off the mark.... lol, one swallow doesn't make a summer Chris. One down, hundreds to go eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 One down, hundreds to go eh? I predict a lot of 'told you so' threads over the next year And I doubt they will be wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Oh I don't doubt that there will be a lot of peoples cheap installations going tits up in the next couple of years. Luckily for the people that built them, I imagine they'll have been sold on to unsuspecting new owners by then. However this is the first tubular manifold that I've heard of cracking on here in a long old time, and found it amusing that Chris managed to chip in straight away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Oh I don't doubt that there will be a lot of peoples cheap installations going tits up in the next couple of years. Luckily for the people that built them, I imagine they'll have been sold on to unsuspecting new owners by then. However this is the first tubular manifold that I've heard of cracking on here in a long old time, and found it amusing that Chris managed to chip in straight away. That's a good point Tony. There's been a couple of reported failures this year on premium manifolds, but with all the singles out there it's not exactly a common issue. My old one is still going strong after 2 years/big mileage... and it's made by the Chinese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I have seen three this year, one has done less than 4000 road miles. in that instance the (cheap) turbo is dead, too. Another has done Owen dyno time ONLY and the turbo smokes like a chimney, and the manifold is blowing. FAR from one swallow You can't hang severl kilos of turbo and wastegate off a bunch of unsupported stainless pipe that's glowing red hot and expect nothing to fail, long term. You can't name a single mass production car that attempts such folly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) You can't hang severl kilos of turbo and wastegate off a bunch of unsupported stainless pipe that's glowing red hot and expect nothing to fail, long term. You can't name a single mass production car that attempts such folly. Name a single mass production car that produces 600bhp from a 3.0L though? Comparing these builds to oem builds is like comparing chalk and cheese, some oem parts fit but inevitabley aftermarket/custom parts are needed along the way TBH, I think there will be major flow issues with the cast manifold that maybe won't show themselves up at the 500bhp but will show, significantly the higher their pushed. There is no scope for flow characteristics dependant on firing order, in fact there is really no scope for flow at all, its hope for the best stuff, and this in turn should increase egt's The engines you mention Chris where race engines were they not, if I had the option of less weight in a race or longetivity with the budget of a race team I know what I'd choose, I do think these manifolds promote more low down torque and slightly quicker spool, infact its pretty much fact, but at the expense of slighter higher egt's(boost dependent) and flow restrictions You can't hang severl kilos of turbo and wastegate off a bunch of unsupported stainless pipe that's glowing red hot and expect nothing to fail, long term. Agree there, something that really needs sorting with the 2JZ manifolds Edited September 3, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Haven't really decided yet but I think I might try 0.81. I run a .81 on mine, and I have no issues with top end, I also have a '68 on the bench, I should try it, but having manifold issues at the mo... It'll be fine, trust me If you saw the size of manifold runners Nissan used on the R90CK car, and Toyota on their GTP cars, both capable of nearly 1000 real BHP, then you'd know that you don't need big runner volume to make good spool and amazing top end power. Anout's manifold runner volume and short length will give great spool and unless you are into building a serious drag engine on race fuel it won't be a limitation. Seems my predictions of a few years ago about cheap tubular manifolds and cheap turbos wasn't a million miles off the mark.... mmm...... You can't hang severl kilos of turbo and wastegate off a bunch of unsupported stainless pipe that's glowing red hot and expect nothing to fail, long term. You can't name a single mass production car that attempts such folly. I'll be looking at this carefully too, even on a cast manifold, as I want it done properly. sounds like the way forward thanks for the replies, looking forwrad to the end result.. I want it done for marham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Do you have previous recorded results of egt's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraFlynn Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 FWIW I did some checking a while ago about the availability of the Induction Motorsports cast manifold and queried it's potential maximum power with a guy called Jeff. My car made 816rwhp with the cast manifold and a 70mm turbo, which is about as high as a 70mm turbo will go. In other words, they hold their own with all but the best of race-only header setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefgroover Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 It'll be fine, trust me If you saw the size of manifold runners Nissan used on the R90CK car, and Toyota on their GTP cars, both capable of nearly 1000 real BHP, then you'd know that you don't need big runner volume to make good spool and amazing top end power. I just wish i had my camera with me a month or so back, i was lucky enough to be given free reign over the R90CK and the turbo install was very educational. Anout's manifold runner volume and short length will give great spool and unless you are into building a serious drag engine on race fuel it won't be a limitation. Seems my predictions of a few years ago about cheap tubular manifolds and cheap turbos wasn't a million miles off the mark.... I have yet to see a complete kit. Fab work is outside most DIY guys scope. Otherwise I might try one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Do you have previous recorded results of egt's? my egts were never higher than 815 degrees on a fully hot engine, pulling sustained runs in 6th with no water injection, probe was inside runner 6. The T67 seems a very cool turbo. I have yet to see a complete kit. Fab work is outside most DIY guys scope. Otherwise I might try one. Mine will be going to the fabricators. I am lucky; I have an awesome set of guys 30 miles away who do beautiful work. also... info from all you guys... getting the best possible seal from block to manifold.... what is the best gasket/sealent to use?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Stock MLS gaskets, no sealant at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Stock MLS gaskets, no sealant at all. I take it that means that you don't recommend sealents? I need an egt probe from you chris, and one of these gaskets if you recommend them. can you mail me some details please? I will get the fabs to put a flexible section in this new downpipe and w/g... Time to do the job properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) I don't sell the gaskets, they are just stock Toyota parts. I need to try and get an order for at least 4 probes again, Bolarbug wants one, maybe 2, if two is the case I'll keep one on stock. Bolarbug? You probably need the stainless threaded adpators for them, and a pair of plugs and sockets for each probe? By FAR the best bellows are the single layer concertina ones, not the braided type HKS use in some of their systems. I think Primary Designs keep these. Anyone wanting a PROPER tubular manifold made I use and recommend them. http://www.primarydesigns.co.uk/ Edited September 3, 2008 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 You probably need the stainless threaded adpators for them, and a pair of plugs and sockets for each probe? eye eye, might as well get all the right parts. I'm up for one regardless, please pm/mail me with payment details when you have it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) Bolarbug? You probably need the stainless threaded adpators for them, and a pair of plugs and sockets for each probe? I have this manifold, not having a clue about metal, I'm sure this is stainless steel(Yes it is), would I need one of the threaded adapters or could I just tap and drill into runner 1 and 6 - JamieP style, I'll speak to my welding man, but he'll be a bit flumoxed with regards the metal as its coated I'd imagine Edited September 3, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 they welded a bung on mine no issues, should think yours will be the same. That is a huge manifold... it has two wastegate pipes sticking out at very odd angles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) http://www.full-race.com/catalog_images/Toyota_2JZGE_Turbo_Manifold/Toyota_2JZGE_Turbo_Manifold_03.jpg Its a very similar position to this installed, although this is the one for the N/A - T, on mine the WG nearest the Headlight is almost straight, like in the first pic, its a very tight fit but it fits with ease thankfully!! The only thing I would say is I have a WG head sitting right under my fecking Intake pipe, thats not going to do much for air intake temps, but then when it matters, heat shouldnt be rising in that direction anyway(I'll do a bit of heat shielding) Also they pretty much give you no choice as to whether you want a screamer pipe, but my welder thinks he can fudge something up(fingers crossed!) It is an awesome manifold though, the build quality is second to none, and it is a proper divided manifold,boost control should be spot on with one 44mm WG controlling 3cylinders each, the manifold is optimised for flow, so should see nice topend numbers and response from the GT35R and even better with a T67dbb Edited September 3, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 looks good, I'm looking to minimise the volume on mine for throttle response and spool, but it looks like you will have no shortage of upper end power there, it's like a church organ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 You should weld in a 1/8 NPT female threaded bung, and put one of my stainless adptors in the bung. Quite WHERE the best place to weld the bung is I am not sure. Why has it got TWO wastegates? There's a lot of stuff to expand and contract, and plumbing *TWO* wastegates back into the system, missing anything that is in the way or that dislikes heat, will be a total nightmare. Looks similar to something on a Soarer I had in.... (You probably don't want to know ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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